4 ms·

If you feel that way and don't want to support the industry, the real ethical thing to do is to not watch or listen to their products. Only support artists who

If you feel that way and don't want to support the industry, the real ethical thing to do is to not watch or listen to their products. Only support artists who are releasing their material under terms that you agree with.

flarg 11y ago
I want to disagree with you because what you propose is, at the very least, inconvenient - but you're 100% correct, we should vote with our pocketbooks.
- walterbell 11y ago
  From http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/7/stop-treating-citizens-as-consumers.html http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/7/stop-treating-c... "When people are framed as consumers, society becomes little more than a marketplace. Social problems get treated with individualized, market-oriented solutions — where each consumer-citizen is solely responsible for spotting deceptive practices and avoiding unfair schemes — instead of collective, rights-based protections. When the private sector enters into the social contract, ... [we get] shallow public-private partnerships in which the corporate actors are really in charge. While the public is hung out to dry with effectively no defense or recourse since our political rights have evaporated into market choices."
  - rayiner 11y ago
    How is that applicable here? What political rights are in play here? We're talking about entertainment, about as purely commercial a product as you can get. We're not talking about healthcare or water or food or housing.
    - walterbell 11y ago
      The EFF has kindly created a youth education project on the topic of legal rights related to the history of innovation and copyright law, fair use, free speech and the public domain. From http://www.teachingcopyright.org/ http://www.teachingcopyright.org/ "Kids and teens are bombarded with messages from a myriad of sources that using new technology is high-risk behavior. Downloading music is compared to stealing a bicycle — even though many downloads are lawful. Making videos using short clips from other sources is treated as probably illegal — even though many such videos are also lawful."
api 11y ago
Also important to note that even if you pirate, you are increasing a film or album's viral coefficient and possibly helping verbally promote it. So yeah, if you hate an industry boycott it. Remove it from your life.
- tedunangst 11y ago
  That's the funny part. One of the principle arguments for "legit" piracy is that the increased exposure is actually good for business. So combined, these two arguments amount to "you should pirate from these terrible, evil companies in order to increase their profits." Huh.
  - kiiski 11y ago
    And that's why you shouldn't combine arguments from two separate persons. Just because they both disagree with you, doesn't mean they agree with each other.
klagermkii 11y ago
But if you want change isn't defiance generally way more effective at creating it than boycotts? Especially when there is a huge power difference between consumers and the multi-national media conglomerates. I get the feeling when people promote boycotts as the so-called ethical choice they're basically saying "shhhh, I like the system as it is, why don't you just go do your own thing instead". Even though intellectual property might be viewed as a relatively unimportant issue, I think it only helps protect the status quo to push an ineffectual form of protest.
joesmo 11y ago
I'm already not supporting them financially. Why should I have to also deprive myself of culture as well because of them, especially when I think access to culture is my right? Your argument makes no sense.
- jakejake 11y ago
  Depriving yourself of culture? Give me a break! Just say that you don't want to pay anything for music and movies released by major labels and studios, but you still want to enjoy them. Don't pretend you're taking some ethical stance.
maldusiecle 11y ago
One problem with this line of reasoning is that even cultural products released on looser terms tend to be captured by corporate behemoths. It's not uncommon for large labels to buy up rights to independently-released music, for instance. The artists may have limited say in this: they licensed the music to a small label, that label went bankrupt, the rights got bought up by a bigger company (which never would have signed the artist in the first place, but now that they're semi-successful there's less risk). The problem isn't that you can't buy this or that new album without supporting the industry, the problem is that an entire medium is getting sucked up by these huge corporations, who push for copyright limits which make it impossible for that work to ever enter the public domain. "Vote with your wallet" is not a reasonable answer to this kind of situation.

flarg 11y ago

I want to disagree with you because what you propose is, at the very least, inconvenient - but you're 100% correct, we should vote with our pocketbooks.

walterbell 11y ago
From http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/7/stop-treating-citizens-as-consumers.html http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/7/stop-treating-c... "When people are framed as consumers, society becomes little more than a marketplace. Social problems get treated with individualized, market-oriented solutions — where each consumer-citizen is solely responsible for spotting deceptive practices and avoiding unfair schemes — instead of collective, rights-based protections. When the private sector enters into the social contract, ... [we get] shallow public-private partnerships in which the corporate actors are really in charge. While the public is hung out to dry with effectively no defense or recourse since our political rights have evaporated into market choices."
- rayiner 11y ago
  How is that applicable here? What political rights are in play here? We're talking about entertainment, about as purely commercial a product as you can get. We're not talking about healthcare or water or food or housing.
  - walterbell 11y ago
    The EFF has kindly created a youth education project on the topic of legal rights related to the history of innovation and copyright law, fair use, free speech and the public domain. From http://www.teachingcopyright.org/ http://www.teachingcopyright.org/ "Kids and teens are bombarded with messages from a myriad of sources that using new technology is high-risk behavior. Downloading music is compared to stealing a bicycle — even though many downloads are lawful. Making videos using short clips from other sources is treated as probably illegal — even though many such videos are also lawful."

api 11y ago

Also important to note that even if you pirate, you are increasing a film or album's viral coefficient and possibly helping verbally promote it. So yeah, if you hate an industry boycott it. Remove it from your life.

tedunangst 11y ago
That's the funny part. One of the principle arguments for "legit" piracy is that the increased exposure is actually good for business. So combined, these two arguments amount to "you should pirate from these terrible, evil companies in order to increase their profits." Huh.
- kiiski 11y ago
  And that's why you shouldn't combine arguments from two separate persons. Just because they both disagree with you, doesn't mean they agree with each other.

klagermkii 11y ago

But if you want change isn't defiance generally way more effective at creating it than boycotts? Especially when there is a huge power difference between consumers and the multi-national media conglomerates. I get the feeling when people promote boycotts as the so-called ethical choice they're basically saying "shhhh, I like the system as it is, why don't you just go do your own thing instead". Even though intellectual property might be viewed as a relatively unimportant issue, I think it only helps protect the status quo to push an ineffectual form of protest.

joesmo 11y ago

I'm already not supporting them financially. Why should I have to also deprive myself of culture as well because of them, especially when I think access to culture is my right? Your argument makes no sense.

jakejake 11y ago
Depriving yourself of culture? Give me a break! Just say that you don't want to pay anything for music and movies released by major labels and studios, but you still want to enjoy them. Don't pretend you're taking some ethical stance.

maldusiecle 11y ago

One problem with this line of reasoning is that even cultural products released on looser terms tend to be captured by corporate behemoths. It's not uncommon for large labels to buy up rights to independently-released music, for instance. The artists may have limited say in this: they licensed the music to a small label, that label went bankrupt, the rights got bought up by a bigger company (which never would have signed the artist in the first place, but now that they're semi-successful there's less risk). The problem isn't that you can't buy this or that new album without supporting the industry, the problem is that an entire medium is getting sucked up by these huge corporations, who push for copyright limits which make it impossible for that work to ever enter the public domain. "Vote with your wallet" is not a reasonable answer to this kind of situation.