5 ms·

The Chinese Lingerie Venders of Egypt

46 points by nichtich 11y ago

msie 11y ago
Such a riveting read!
mud_dauber 11y ago
Great read. Now I know not to try a manufacturing business in Egypt. Unfortunately.
brc 11y ago
"While Lin and Chen were building their small lingerie empire, they noticed that there was a lot of garbage sitting in open piles around Asyut. They were not the first people to make this observation. But they were the first to respond by importing a polyethylene-terephthalate bottle-flake washing production line, which is manufactured in Jiangsu province, and which allows an entrepreneur to grind up plastic bottles, wash and dry the regrind at high temperatures, and sell it as recycled material. “I saw that it was just lying around, so I decided that I could recycle it and make money,” Lin told me. He and his wife had no experience in the industry, but in 2007 they established the first plastic-bottle recycling facility in Upper Egypt. Their plant is in a small industrial zone in the desert west of Asyut, where it currently employs thirty people and grinds up about four tons of plastic every day. Lin and Chen sell the processed material to Chinese people in Cairo, who use it to manufacture thread. This thread is then sold to entrepreneurs in the Egyptian garment industry, including a number of Chinese. It’s possible that a bottle tossed onto the side of the road in Asyut will pass through three stages of Chinese processing before returning to town in the form of lingerie, also to be sold by Chinese." Heh. Awesome. One thing I always notice when you see documentaries of travels in under-developed countries, that there's always a lot of rubbish sitting around, and also a lot of people sitting around. I always wonder why they don't just start by picking up their trash? I don't pretend to understand the dynamics of a place through a TV show, but keeping your own area tidy would seem to be a simple thing to do to improve your own quality of life, and it can cost virtually nothing.
- jpatokal 11y ago
  What do you with the trash after you pick it up? The kind of underdeveloped countries with piles of trash sitting around also have no functional municipal garbage collection, at least in those areas with piles of trash sitting around.
  - shardinator 11y ago
    Yes I believe this is the main reason for not picking it up, and for it lying around in the first place. However if there is a way to profit from it, that could mean the private sector can turn things around.
  - brc 11y ago
    Even just burying it, burning it or keeping it in a single pile would seem better than having it lying all over the place.
- rgovind 11y ago
  I am from India and so I can comment on this. A lot of places in India are filthy from many generations. So, people naturally grow into it. To keep a public place clean, you have to educate lots of uneducated/uncouth people, you have to impose fines, you have do identify land for dumping and for operations. Who will pay the money? Though city govts charge garbage disposal fees most of this goes into corrupt politicans pockets. Almost no one India votes the politician who says he will keep your neighbourhood clean. So, no fines for littering. Most college educated people like yours truly have thought about but did not do anything considering that we have to deal with bureaucracy and that it is a constant struggle for atleast one generation. Plus there is social stigma/unsexy in handling garbage. Middle class and rich neighbourhoods maintain a basic level of cleanliness(move the garbage to a corner/alley). Cities simply dump the garbage in neighbouring villages (which are poor). Tldr: Its much easier to put up rather that do something about it.
- westiseast 11y ago
  I live in China. It relies on three things - having a poor enough underclass of people to do the scavenging; a high enough price for it to be worthwhile; and readily a available facilities for recycling. If one of these is missing, it's absolutely pointless.
codezero 11y ago
"The most important word in the lingerie dialect is arusa, or “bride.” The Chinese pronounce it alusa, and they use it constantly; in many Cairo neighborhoods, there are Chinese who go door-to-door with sacks of dresses and underwear, calling out “Alusa! Alusa!” In Chinese shops, owners use it as a form of address for any potential customer. To locals, it sounds flattering and a little funny: “Beautiful blide! Look at this, blide! What do you want, blide?”" really? Is this stereotype actually true, or is this embellished? This just seems over the top.
- desdiv 11y ago
  Especially considering that Mandarin Chinese differentiates between R and L sounds; Japanese is the one that doesn't[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_of_English_/r/_and_/l/_by_Japanese_speakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_of_English_/r/_and_...
  - jpatokal 11y ago
    The immigrants in the story are from Zhejiang, so they likely natively speak a Wu dialect that does indeed not have an /r/ sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzhou_dialect#Phonology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzhou_dialect#Phonology And even the sound we write "r" when romanizing Mandarin is pretty distant from an Arabic /r/ (ر). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese#Initials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese#Initials
    - desdiv 11y ago
      Thank you for the correction. I stand corrected.
  - westiseast 11y ago
    Standardized mandarin differentiates, but a lot of people don't speak very standard mandarin, and R and L become confused. The R is also not exactly the same as an English R - it's somewhere in the middle of R, L and a bit of a Zzz.
arjn 11y ago
I feel Egypt's "Zabbaleen" should be mentioned here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabbaleen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabbaleen There was an excellent documentary on them a few years ago : http://www.garbagedreams.com/ http://www.garbagedreams.com/
- qohen 11y ago
  As it happens, in addition to writing the article under discussion in this post, Peter Hessler also wrote another New Yorker piece about one of the zabbaleen: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/13/tales-trash http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/13/tales-trash
jpatokal 11y ago
Peter Hessler is the author of (among other things) "Country Driving", whose insipid title hides a fascinating story of China's evolution viewed from the ground level. http://www.amazon.com/Country-Driving-Chinese-Road-Trip/dp/006180410X http://www.amazon.com/Country-Driving-Chinese-Road-Trip/dp/0...
mrwilliamchang 11y ago
Made me see the world a little differently. “The Chinese will sell people anything they like. They don’t ask any questions. They don’t care what you do with what they sell you. They won’t ask whether the Egyptians are going to hold elections, or repress people, or throw journalists into jail. They don’t care. The Americans think, If everybody is like me, they’re less likely to attack me. The Chinese don’t think like that. They don’t try to make the world be like them. Their strategy is to make economic linkages, so if you break these economic linkages it’s going to hurt you as much as it hurts them.”
- chii 11y ago
  the modern chinese philosophy is to mind your own business, and survive, generate wealth for your children. Try to co-exist, and try to not make enemies (which doesn't mean you make friends), ut if you're troublesome, then stay the hell away.
jscheel 11y ago
My wife and I just visited Egypt for two weeks. It was quite interesting to walk down a street in Cairo and look at hijab/niqab shops right next to seriously raunchy lingerie shops. We though it might be a cosmopolitan thing, but we noticed it even in the more conservative towns we visited.
lming 11y ago
It's a fascinating read! I released my app a while ago and found most users are Arab. I am eager to learn more about my customers and this article provides great insights.

46 points by nichtich 11y ago

msie 11y ago

Such a riveting read!

mud_dauber 11y ago

Great read. Now I know not to try a manufacturing business in Egypt. Unfortunately.

brc 11y ago

"While Lin and Chen were building their small lingerie empire, they noticed that there was a lot of garbage sitting in open piles around Asyut. They were not the first people to make this observation. But they were the first to respond by importing a polyethylene-terephthalate bottle-flake washing production line, which is manufactured in Jiangsu province, and which allows an entrepreneur to grind up plastic bottles, wash and dry the regrind at high temperatures, and sell it as recycled material. “I saw that it was just lying around, so I decided that I could recycle it and make money,” Lin told me. He and his wife had no experience in the industry, but in 2007 they established the first plastic-bottle recycling facility in Upper Egypt. Their plant is in a small industrial zone in the desert west of Asyut, where it currently employs thirty people and grinds up about four tons of plastic every day. Lin and Chen sell the processed material to Chinese people in Cairo, who use it to manufacture thread. This thread is then sold to entrepreneurs in the Egyptian garment industry, including a number of Chinese. It’s possible that a bottle tossed onto the side of the road in Asyut will pass through three stages of Chinese processing before returning to town in the form of lingerie, also to be sold by Chinese." Heh. Awesome. One thing I always notice when you see documentaries of travels in under-developed countries, that there's always a lot of rubbish sitting around, and also a lot of people sitting around. I always wonder why they don't just start by picking up their trash? I don't pretend to understand the dynamics of a place through a TV show, but keeping your own area tidy would seem to be a simple thing to do to improve your own quality of life, and it can cost virtually nothing.

jpatokal 11y ago
What do you with the trash after you pick it up? The kind of underdeveloped countries with piles of trash sitting around also have no functional municipal garbage collection, at least in those areas with piles of trash sitting around.
- shardinator 11y ago
  Yes I believe this is the main reason for not picking it up, and for it lying around in the first place. However if there is a way to profit from it, that could mean the private sector can turn things around.
- brc 11y ago
  Even just burying it, burning it or keeping it in a single pile would seem better than having it lying all over the place.
rgovind 11y ago
I am from India and so I can comment on this. A lot of places in India are filthy from many generations. So, people naturally grow into it. To keep a public place clean, you have to educate lots of uneducated/uncouth people, you have to impose fines, you have do identify land for dumping and for operations. Who will pay the money? Though city govts charge garbage disposal fees most of this goes into corrupt politicans pockets. Almost no one India votes the politician who says he will keep your neighbourhood clean. So, no fines for littering. Most college educated people like yours truly have thought about but did not do anything considering that we have to deal with bureaucracy and that it is a constant struggle for atleast one generation. Plus there is social stigma/unsexy in handling garbage. Middle class and rich neighbourhoods maintain a basic level of cleanliness(move the garbage to a corner/alley). Cities simply dump the garbage in neighbouring villages (which are poor). Tldr: Its much easier to put up rather that do something about it.
westiseast 11y ago
I live in China. It relies on three things - having a poor enough underclass of people to do the scavenging; a high enough price for it to be worthwhile; and readily a available facilities for recycling. If one of these is missing, it's absolutely pointless.

codezero 11y ago

"The most important word in the lingerie dialect is arusa, or “bride.” The Chinese pronounce it alusa, and they use it constantly; in many Cairo neighborhoods, there are Chinese who go door-to-door with sacks of dresses and underwear, calling out “Alusa! Alusa!” In Chinese shops, owners use it as a form of address for any potential customer. To locals, it sounds flattering and a little funny: “Beautiful blide! Look at this, blide! What do you want, blide?”" really? Is this stereotype actually true, or is this embellished? This just seems over the top.

desdiv 11y ago
Especially considering that Mandarin Chinese differentiates between R and L sounds; Japanese is the one that doesn't[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_of_English_/r/_and_/l/_by_Japanese_speakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_of_English_/r/_and_...
- jpatokal 11y ago
  The immigrants in the story are from Zhejiang, so they likely natively speak a Wu dialect that does indeed not have an /r/ sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzhou_dialect#Phonology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzhou_dialect#Phonology And even the sound we write "r" when romanizing Mandarin is pretty distant from an Arabic /r/ (ر). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese#Initials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese#Initials
  - desdiv 11y ago
    Thank you for the correction. I stand corrected.
- westiseast 11y ago
  Standardized mandarin differentiates, but a lot of people don't speak very standard mandarin, and R and L become confused. The R is also not exactly the same as an English R - it's somewhere in the middle of R, L and a bit of a Zzz.

arjn 11y ago

I feel Egypt's "Zabbaleen" should be mentioned here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabbaleen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabbaleen There was an excellent documentary on them a few years ago : http://www.garbagedreams.com/ http://www.garbagedreams.com/

qohen 11y ago
As it happens, in addition to writing the article under discussion in this post, Peter Hessler also wrote another New Yorker piece about one of the zabbaleen: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/13/tales-trash http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/13/tales-trash

jpatokal 11y ago

Peter Hessler is the author of (among other things) "Country Driving", whose insipid title hides a fascinating story of China's evolution viewed from the ground level. http://www.amazon.com/Country-Driving-Chinese-Road-Trip/dp/006180410X http://www.amazon.com/Country-Driving-Chinese-Road-Trip/dp/0...

mrwilliamchang 11y ago

Made me see the world a little differently. “The Chinese will sell people anything they like. They don’t ask any questions. They don’t care what you do with what they sell you. They won’t ask whether the Egyptians are going to hold elections, or repress people, or throw journalists into jail. They don’t care. The Americans think, If everybody is like me, they’re less likely to attack me. The Chinese don’t think like that. They don’t try to make the world be like them. Their strategy is to make economic linkages, so if you break these economic linkages it’s going to hurt you as much as it hurts them.”

chii 11y ago
the modern chinese philosophy is to mind your own business, and survive, generate wealth for your children. Try to co-exist, and try to not make enemies (which doesn't mean you make friends), ut if you're troublesome, then stay the hell away.

jscheel 11y ago

My wife and I just visited Egypt for two weeks. It was quite interesting to walk down a street in Cairo and look at hijab/niqab shops right next to seriously raunchy lingerie shops. We though it might be a cosmopolitan thing, but we noticed it even in the more conservative towns we visited.

lming 11y ago

It's a fascinating read! I released my app a while ago and found most users are Arab. I am eager to learn more about my customers and this article provides great insights.