4 ms·

Why wouldn't you proctor exams? The time spent is small, less than 10 hours a semester, and the proctors can answer student questions or make corrections and cl

by tgb 11y ago

Why wouldn't you proctor exams? The time spent is small, less than 10 hours a semester, and the proctors can answer student questions or make corrections and clarifications to test questions. That it's a small disincentive to cheat is nice too, though in my experience only the most blatant of cheating would be caught. I say all this as someone who proctors exams.

WalterBright 11y ago
The reason was to emphasize that the students were trusted. Sometimes a professor would sit outside in the hall to answer questions, but he would not go in the room. Most of the exams were take-home anyway, and included instructions giving a time limit and what reference material was allowed to be used.
- ectoplasm 11y ago
  To me this sounds like admin trying to save money. I found some more discussion in a couple places: http://blog.sethroberts.net/2014/02/17/cheating-at-caltech/ http://blog.sethroberts.net/2014/02/17/cheating-at-caltech/ https://www.quora.com/Are-all-exams-at-Caltech-take-home-exams https://www.quora.com/Are-all-exams-at-Caltech-take-home-exa...
  - WalterBright 11y ago
    That's the first I've heard that it had anything to do with saving money, and I spent 4 years there. It does, however, make life easier for professors and students when you can trust each other. I don't know what Caltech is like today. I attended in 70's, and the honor system was considered sacred by the students. If there were cheaters, they never bragged about it, and I don't know of any. I know one who fell asleep during his takehome exam, woke up and finished it, and so exceeded the time limit. He noted this on the exam. The professor replied back that he was very sorry and was forced to give him an F. The student repeated the (required) class next year. The number of students who did poorly on exams argues that cheating was not widespread. If the culture has changed in the intervening years, that makes me very sad.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > I don't know what Caltech is like today. I attended in 70's, and the honor system was considered sacred by the students. If there were cheaters, they never bragged about it, and I don't know of any. I (briefly) attended in the early 1990s, and it was the same.
    - gertef 11y ago
      > The professor replied back that he was very sorry and was forced to give him an F. The student repeated the (required) class next year. Wow, way to prize process over people. Why not let the student drop the class and just re-take the test next time around? Is Caltech designed to teach science, or train paper-pushers?
      - grayclhn 11y ago
        I don't know about caltech, but many universities replace an F grade if you retake the class.
      - SamLL 11y ago
        In my day (ca. 2000) there was no "forced to give an F" and in fact it was very common for exam-takers to draw a line, write "everything below this line I did after the time limit", and get partial credit for it.
        WalterBright 11y ago
        Not that I recall. I don't think it's quite fair to do that, as it then becomes an infinite time exam. But also consider that the midterm and the final were the entire grade. No credit was given for homework, showing up for class, etc. The rules about the exams were pretty clear. However, if you had a borderline exam grade, but had done the homework diligently, the prof would use that as a tie breaker. His fellow students thought the F was a bit harsh, but he conceded that it was fair and took his lumps with equanimity. I quite admired him for it. In the end, it didn't hurt him because he graduated and went on to a very successful career.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Why wouldn't you proctor exams? The time spent is small, less than 10 hours a semester, and the proctors can answer student questions or make corrections and clarifications to test questions. Because Caltech faculty (and, for undergraduate student exams, grad students) have better things to do with their time than proctor exams (and, perhaps more to the point, because Caltech wants to attract faculty and grad students that feel that they have better uses for their time that baby-sitting exams.) And, frankly, like many aspects of the trust extended to Caltech students, its a recruitment policy -- Caltech is an extremely selective, extremely small school that is competing with other elite institutions to attract the best students.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  Honor codes and not proctoring exams (rather, the students doing it themselves) are a fairly common feature of engineering colleges, it isn't really something that contributes to Caltech standing out.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Honor codes and not proctoring exams (rather, the students doing it themselves) are a fairly common feature of engineering colleges, it isn't really something that contributes to Caltech standing out. > Honor codes and not proctoring exams (rather, the students doing it themselves) are a fairly common feature of engineering colleges, it isn't really something that contributes to Caltech standing out. I'm not saying Caltech is unique in doing that, I'm saying that in the universe Caltech operates in it would conflict with their recruiting interests -- both for faculty and students -- to operate in a different way.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- WalterBright 11y ago
  There's more to it than that. For example, I didn't feel any need to lock my dorm room door when going down the hall to the bathroom, and often never bothered to even close it. I never had anything stolen, nor did anyone else. (Not totally true, there were a couple instances where an outsider came in the unlocked dormitory doors and tried to boost something, but the other students gave chase and caught them.) It's just nicer to live that way. A friend of mine at UT had his room sacked the first week.

by tgb 11y ago

WalterBright 11y ago

The reason was to emphasize that the students were trusted. Sometimes a professor would sit outside in the hall to answer questions, but he would not go in the room. Most of the exams were take-home anyway, and included instructions giving a time limit and what reference material was allowed to be used.

ectoplasm 11y ago
To me this sounds like admin trying to save money. I found some more discussion in a couple places: http://blog.sethroberts.net/2014/02/17/cheating-at-caltech/ http://blog.sethroberts.net/2014/02/17/cheating-at-caltech/ https://www.quora.com/Are-all-exams-at-Caltech-take-home-exams https://www.quora.com/Are-all-exams-at-Caltech-take-home-exa...
- WalterBright 11y ago
  That's the first I've heard that it had anything to do with saving money, and I spent 4 years there. It does, however, make life easier for professors and students when you can trust each other. I don't know what Caltech is like today. I attended in 70's, and the honor system was considered sacred by the students. If there were cheaters, they never bragged about it, and I don't know of any. I know one who fell asleep during his takehome exam, woke up and finished it, and so exceeded the time limit. He noted this on the exam. The professor replied back that he was very sorry and was forced to give him an F. The student repeated the (required) class next year. The number of students who did poorly on exams argues that cheating was not widespread. If the culture has changed in the intervening years, that makes me very sad.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > I don't know what Caltech is like today. I attended in 70's, and the honor system was considered sacred by the students. If there were cheaters, they never bragged about it, and I don't know of any. I (briefly) attended in the early 1990s, and it was the same.
  - gertef 11y ago
    > The professor replied back that he was very sorry and was forced to give him an F. The student repeated the (required) class next year. Wow, way to prize process over people. Why not let the student drop the class and just re-take the test next time around? Is Caltech designed to teach science, or train paper-pushers?
    - grayclhn 11y ago
      I don't know about caltech, but many universities replace an F grade if you retake the class.
    - SamLL 11y ago
      In my day (ca. 2000) there was no "forced to give an F" and in fact it was very common for exam-takers to draw a line, write "everything below this line I did after the time limit", and get partial credit for it.
      - WalterBright 11y ago
        Not that I recall. I don't think it's quite fair to do that, as it then becomes an infinite time exam. But also consider that the midterm and the final were the entire grade. No credit was given for homework, showing up for class, etc. The rules about the exams were pretty clear. However, if you had a borderline exam grade, but had done the homework diligently, the prof would use that as a tie breaker. His fellow students thought the F was a bit harsh, but he conceded that it was fair and took his lumps with equanimity. I quite admired him for it. In the end, it didn't hurt him because he graduated and went on to a very successful career.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Why wouldn't you proctor exams? The time spent is small, less than 10 hours a semester, and the proctors can answer student questions or make corrections and clarifications to test questions. Because Caltech faculty (and, for undergraduate student exams, grad students) have better things to do with their time than proctor exams (and, perhaps more to the point, because Caltech wants to attract faculty and grad students that feel that they have better uses for their time that baby-sitting exams.) And, frankly, like many aspects of the trust extended to Caltech students, its a recruitment policy -- Caltech is an extremely selective, extremely small school that is competing with other elite institutions to attract the best students.

maxerickson 11y ago
Honor codes and not proctoring exams (rather, the students doing it themselves) are a fairly common feature of engineering colleges, it isn't really something that contributes to Caltech standing out.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Honor codes and not proctoring exams (rather, the students doing it themselves) are a fairly common feature of engineering colleges, it isn't really something that contributes to Caltech standing out. > Honor codes and not proctoring exams (rather, the students doing it themselves) are a fairly common feature of engineering colleges, it isn't really something that contributes to Caltech standing out. I'm not saying Caltech is unique in doing that, I'm saying that in the universe Caltech operates in it would conflict with their recruiting interests -- both for faculty and students -- to operate in a different way.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
WalterBright 11y ago
There's more to it than that. For example, I didn't feel any need to lock my dorm room door when going down the hall to the bathroom, and often never bothered to even close it. I never had anything stolen, nor did anyone else. (Not totally true, there were a couple instances where an outsider came in the unlocked dormitory doors and tried to boost something, but the other students gave chase and caught them.) It's just nicer to live that way. A friend of mine at UT had his room sacked the first week.