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bluekeybox
searching PlanetScale…
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31.
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by
bluekeybox
13y ago
The dividing line roughly corresponds to the spread of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at its peak in the 1600s: http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/images/deut/EU1559.jpg In other words, one could argue that the ro
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bluekeybox
13y ago
> the US has a strong strong interest of the Ukraine breaking away from US influence Sure it does. However, don't you understand that all runner-up or would-be superpowers (China, Russia, etc) have a vested interest in portraying
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bluekeybox
13y ago
Please elaborate your Godwin accusation, and explain, in what way you believe that I lack a complete picture. I am fully aware, FYI, that there exists a 30-50% Russian minority in Ukraine (with exact percentage depending on whether you coun
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bluekeybox
13y ago
This is getting dangerously close to "no true scotsman".
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bluekeybox
13y ago
> It seems that the protestors have no other clear goal in mind except joining the EU Incorrect, the main goal is to prevent the current government mafia allied with government-connected industrial oligarchs in Donetsk region to become e
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bluekeybox
13y ago
It's an (somewhat distorted) oversimplification to call this a Cold-War style chess game. Both groups are authentic, i.e. people in Western Ukraine genuinely feel closer to the West while people in Eastern Ukraine genuinely do feel clo
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bluekeybox
13y ago
Actually there is (or at least use to be) an idea of "progress". The hope was that people in the predominantly Russian-speaking Eastern regions would eventually "convert" politically to a pro-European direction because a
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bluekeybox
13y ago
> I've met a random Ukrainian couple while vacationing recently. They didn't speak Russian at all, so most definitely not from the east or other pro-russia kind of Ukrainians. And when asked about this uprising they expressed c
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bluekeybox
13y ago
Note that I said "economic and political". At present, Ukraine is mostly politically sovereign. The deal with Russia would make it much worse, especially on political front.
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bluekeybox
13y ago
There is an equally significant anti-Western bias among liberal university-educated people who were born in the U.S, so it mostly balances out. In addition, we now have maps like this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs
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bluekeybox
13y ago
Actually he indeed was, but one of his first steps he took immediately after was to imprison his main political opponent ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko#2011_trial_and... ).
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bluekeybox
13y ago
> They want Ukraine to join European union No. If you were more familiar with the situation, you would understand that EU is only being used as a token signal (not goal) of the direction the country should be heading in. What the prote
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bluekeybox
13y ago
None of the people protesting have any illusion as to how long it would take to join EU or that it would be painless. Moreover, joining (or not joining the EU) is not even the main point of the protests. The point of the protests is prevent
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bluekeybox
13y ago
As someone not very familiar with the Turkish situation, would you mind sharing which specific Turkish protests you're referring to that remind you of this one? Thanks.
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bluekeybox
13y ago
So far the protesters' actions have been targeting the government, not the citizens who support it. As to "demonizing a country which is a neighbor", the very fact you chose those words shows you are completely unfamiliar wit
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bluekeybox
13y ago
> Until then it is just a corner of the Soviet Union that has failed to catch up with the modern world. Sounding a little patronizing here, no?
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bluekeybox
13y ago
> And the blogosphere is manipulated into buying this as some kind of completely spontaneous grass roots movement Completely absurd. All my extended family in Ukraine (plus all my former friends, classmates, and teachers) support the pro
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bluekeybox
13y ago
I don't mean to get personal, but your post is surprisingly content-free. Everyone in the pro-government party understands what this protest is about. Yanukovich may be portrayed as non-intellectual, but he has read his Machiavelli a
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bluekeybox
13y ago
It's different because, unlike OWS, this is not an "eat the rich" protest. This is a protest against an authoritarian foreign power imposing its will on what (briefly) has been an independent country.
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bluekeybox
13y ago
You are correct, it's about signaling. However, we have to think about whether one type of signaling should be privileged over another just by virtue of being particularly loud and obnoxious. (Note that this goes both ways). The "
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bluekeybox
13y ago
You are using logic. Stop where you are.
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bluekeybox
13y ago
Nobody is saying that generalizing is wrong in the general sense. It's just that sometimes advantages can be had to being particular. For example, I have a feeling that the culture in Estonia (including one's attitudes towards ent
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bluekeybox
13y ago
Wow, much metaphysic. /sorry, couldn't resist.
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bluekeybox
13y ago
No one is talking about Soviet-style suppression of free speech. To see my direction, compare media-enabled witch-hunts and mob politics to an immune reaction of an organism. A small, appropriate dose of it is good for the body. A dispropor
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bluekeybox
13y ago
To blame the listeners is one step short of accepting things as they are. In this case, it is most certainly the talkers, since it is they who immediately profit from their deeds. Don't forget that every listener is also a talker (I be
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bluekeybox
13y ago
I'm commenting on the role of mass media in a contemporary society. This is important because I'm afraid that soon everyone is going to hear about PG/YC because "oh no, patriarchy!" To repeat, look at engineering
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bluekeybox
13y ago
> It is the first time I saw Paul Graham appear on my Facebook Amazing times we live in, isn't it? If this is how the average person finds out who someone like PG is, what hope is there for the world at large? Please note that had P
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bluekeybox
13y ago
Amazing. So when the rich try to segregate, the papers start screaming about how gated communities are bad for everyone. On the other hand, when the rich try to live where everybody else does, then the popular reaction is, "Oh my god,
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bluekeybox
13y ago
Plus it tends to reward established networks of "friends" who assign each other as coauthors on papers rather than individuals doing the hard part of the work.
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bluekeybox
13y ago
> And why can't both be true? I did express that possibility (I said, "or is the truth somewhere in the middle perhaps?"). In fact I have reasons to believe that that is the case.
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