Draiken

35 ms·

391.
by Draiken 3y ago
Maybe my point got lost within the threads but I never said types aren't useful or that we should reject them at all. After all, what you said is true. Whether we want it or not, everything is "typed" in one way or another. M
392.
by Draiken 3y ago
I don't see how this adds to the discussion. Second time this week for me where people are connecting programing discussions with people dying. But sure, let's pretend this is a real argument. Typed languages are not at all like s
393.
by Draiken 3y ago
>if you use TypeScript in an object-oriented way I don't follow this one. I've never seen anyone use TypeScript with an OO approach aside from, ironically, the .NET folks. The code I wrote has nothing OO with it and we can alre
394.
by Draiken 3y ago
Fair point. If there was good research showing no difference, it would be equally pointless to argue either side is right, but it wouldn't be mere opinions, like they are today. As for the move between runtime to development time tools
395.
by Draiken 3y ago
That's the first thing you do: read/learn the data structures you're working with. As Linus said once: > Bad programmers worry about the code. Good programmers worry about data structures and their relationships. Of course
396.
by Draiken 3y ago
In other words: types were not a deciding factor. Ultimately bugs cannot be prevented by having a type system. We make mistakes regardless of static or dynamic types. We can argue it's because of the lack of types, tests, oversight and
397.
by Draiken 3y ago
> Isn't this basically the promise of Haskell, Rust, et al? "If it compiles, it works;" "guaranteed memory safety," etc? Yes, 100%. If that's what people were referring to when they argue for typed languages
398.
by Draiken 3y ago
That was my bad. I meant to say it didn't lean either way because the research is lacking .
399.
by Draiken 3y ago
That's using values to determine different types. What I'm talking about is true type validation where I can detect differences between the same data. TypeA = number TypeB = number const myNumber = someFunctionThatReturns
400.
by Draiken 3y ago
Not all of that research was done with public code. But they had other flaws. I should have prefaced that with "IMO". That particular sentence comes from my experience/career, so YMMV. When I'm reading code, I know what
401.
by Draiken 3y ago
Yeah, which is a shame. Because I truly wanted to be confident that the costs of these don't outweigh the benefits. Regardless if it's no meaningful difference or no good research, the point remains: we simply don't know, so
402.
by Draiken 3y ago
Forgive me if I didn't use the right terminology too. What I mean by type checking bugs are the kinds of bugs shown in the article: I have an argument that should be a number but someone accidentally uses it with a string instead. That
403.
by Draiken 3y ago
This was the last one I read: http://danluu.com/empirical-pl/ If there's more, I hope people reply here with it!
404.
by Draiken 3y ago
I had to learn TS because that's the hype today, and went into it after seeing some amazing F# talks on typing. I was amazed at the way they used types to ensure your code was actually correct. I was excited to be able to do that with
405.
by Draiken 3y ago
>I think most people would agree that types prevent a lot of bugs Again, that's not what research shows. Type checking bugs are most definitely not the most common ones and typing doesn't really help with runtime bugs unless it
406.
by Draiken 3y ago
The only thing that really frustrates me in this discussion is that it's all about how people "feel" and without empiric evidence. The research out there found no meaningful difference between both styles (unless there's
407.
by Draiken 3y ago
It's incredible to see how effective the red scare was/is. Passed down through generations making people go against their own well being...
408.
by Draiken 3y ago
Are those pings that require immediate attention? In my experience, no. The vast majority of time in my career, if you have a minimum amount of decent planning, you won't get blocked because you can't talk to another person immedi
409.
by Draiken 3y ago
Unfortunately that's 100% because of capitalism. We pay with our valuable time so they get more time to enjoy their yachts. The government can't really solve this anymore, because corporations control the politicians and public op
410.
by Draiken 3y ago
Sure, some roles require that, but most definitely not the majority. In development at least, most of the times I hear this, the "availability" is only needed for random unplanned meetings from useless managers that can't act
411.
by Draiken 3y ago
For me it comes down to ignoring valid use-cases because some people might misuse it (but can already do that without this product) without actually improving anything in the larger sense. It feels like a waste. I understand that theoretica
412.
by Draiken 3y ago
I cannot tell you why, or if in this specific instance they are forgetting or not. My point is more of a general one. The hypocrisy of the masses is real. Most only really care about the instances they can perceive and accept all other ones
413.
by Draiken 3y ago
I don't think using it makes you an advocate. I totally understand the point that most of the time we're not choosing it. It has been chosen for us in one way or another and that sucks. My whole point is that we should focus on th
414.
by Draiken 3y ago
Yeah, sure looks like it. With some of the emotions I'm seeing in this thread, it feels almost like catharsis for a lot of folks.
415.
by Draiken 3y ago
Interesting comment. I agree with pretty much all of it. Although in fairness, I never claimed YAML was good in any way, shape or form. My comment was always about the pointlessness of it all. Either we get projects to not use YAML or we&#x
416.
by Draiken 3y ago
Yeah I've been there personally too. But why aren't we complaining about the vendor then? I find it weird that we love to complain about the YAML format instead of the projects that chose it. Given some of the emotions I saw in ot
417.
by Draiken 3y ago
Isn't this confirmation bias at work? These are poor decisions of different degrees, but they're still simply poor decisions. I have no horse in this race. I suffered with the shortcomings of all of these formats. So I don't
418.
by Draiken 3y ago
For some reason that line triggered a lot of folks. That was not my intention, haha. I agree that it's not always under our control and that can be extremely frustrating. But that's not YAML's fault, is it? When I wrote &quot
419.
by Draiken 3y ago
Care to elaborate? You wrote a lot of words but said nothing. My argument is that picking only on YAML is useless because we can find faults in all of them. There's no perfect choice, just trade-offs. What's your point?
420.
by Draiken 3y ago
What? You're not bringing any arguments yourself. "There are no pros to using it" has got to be the most lazy thing I've read today. Are we to assume that when the Google folks working on Kubernetes chose YAML they had a

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