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"USian" is distracting enough that I'm taking the time to write this reply. The accepted English demonym for inhabitants of the United States of America is Ame

by learc83 11y ago

"USian" is distracting enough that I'm taking the time to write this reply. The accepted English demonym for inhabitants of the United States of America is American. It has been this way for 200 years. We call ourselves American, and every English speaking country calls us American. The only measure of correctness for language is use, and when speaking in English, American is only commonly used in one way--in English, American is almost universally unambiguous. No other country name contains the word America, and no one else commonly refers to themselves as American in English.

eru 11y ago
> No other country name contains the word America [...] I checked the list of sovereign countries. It's actually true.
koralatov 11y ago
I completely agree with your post, and your correction of the abnormal/pedantic neologism 'USian' (how would that even be pronounced? /juːʃaɪn/? /ju ɛs aɪn/?). It's not just English speakers who use the term 'American' --- I've frequently heard it in use by Polish and Hungarian people when speaking their own language: "[Polish words] American [more Polish]".
ragazzina 11y ago
>The only measure of correctness for language is use, I'd posit the only measure of correctness for language is the ability of being understood, even before the use. So when I read and understand USian, I don't really care that much that it's less used than American to deem it "incorrect". If you don't like it, say so, but limited usage is a small reason to consider something "wrong".
- learc83 11y ago
  >I'd posit the only measure of correctness for language is the ability of being understood, even before the use. The ability to be understood is directly tied to use. If you use nonstandard constructions, fewer people will understand you. Less people understand USian than American precisely because it's not in common use. >but limited usage is a small reason to consider something "wrong". No, most linguists consider lack of use pretty much the only reason to consider something "wrong". When something is used enough to be in common use is a bit arbitrary, but USian has definitely not met that standard. You might as well start using USican or USperson. Beyond being very uncommon, it's also distracting even to people who do understand it. The capitalization is non-standard, and it's difficult to pronounce. The purpose of writing is to effectively communicate, and unless your goal is to purposely pull people out of the flow of your writing, it's not a good idea to use it.
  - Nadya 11y ago
    How do you suggest a word gain common usage without people first using the term while it is both wrong and uncommon? It requires being adopted into peoples vocabulary before it could ever become a common word. >Beyond being very uncommon, it's also distracting even to people who do understand it. The capitalization is non-standard, and it's difficult to pronounce. The data points from this thread paint the opposite picture. You seem to be the only person distracted by it or having difficult pronouncing it. It always irks me that some linguists dislike the "changing" nature of living languages. Words and phrases go in and out of style, new phrases and words are invented, and some of those new words and phrases will make it into the common lexicon. Others will die out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them using USian other than it not being an "official" word. The intended meaning seems to be well understood by those reading it and there is no reason to assume motives, that behavior is annoying in and of itself. There is enough context clues in the message that even if the meaning isn't picked up on immediately, one can infer it. If the crux of your argument rests on people being confused by the word - the same could be said about a plethora of words.
    - learc83 11y ago
      Languages are going to change whether we like it our not. However, until something is in common use, using it makes your speech and writing more difficult to understand. A word may be in common use in the future, or it may have been in common use in the past, but if it isn't currently in common use, using it decreases your understandability. >The data points from this thread paint the opposite picture. You seem to be the only person distracted by it or having difficult pronouncing it. 2 out of 5 people in the thread who have expressed an opinion said it was distracting and hard to pronounce. 40% of our small sample size finds it distracting. I also have a fair amount of upvotes for my original comment. >If the crux of your argument rests on people being confused by the word - the same could be said about a plethora of words. If the percentage of your intended audience that is distracted by or doesn't understand "plethora" is larger than the percentage that prefers it to "a lot", I'd argue that you shouldn't use "plethora" either. >The intended meaning seems to be well understood by those reading it and there is no reason to assume motives, that behavior is annoying in and of itself. It's not common and was created for political purposes. There is a decrease in understandability over using the accepted term, what other purpose is there for using it? The term was specifically created and promoted by people who dislike the term American.
dilap 11y ago
Huh, that's interesting; it wasn't on purpose. But thinking about it, I guess "American" isn't really the most precise term, since there are a bunch of other countries in the Americas. I might be more aware of this, subconsciously, than your typical citizen of the USA because my wife is Mexican. Googling around shows I'm certainly not the only person using the term "USian". It's interesting how it's impossible to choose language without also choosing political sides. :)
- learc83 11y ago
  American is unambiguous in English because in the English speaking world there is no continent called America and no one uses the term American to mean they are from the western hemisphere (in English that is). >Googling around shows I'm certainly not the only person using the term "USian". You're not, but nearly everyone using it is doing so out of some desire to avoid a non existent controversy. It's also used so rarely that you'll often run into people who've never heard the term. In addition, it's very difficult to pronounce and will therefore likely never be widely adopted. Do you say "you-es-ians" when speaking? It's a very similar situation to Australia. There is more than one country that is part of the Australian continent, yet people from the Commonwealth of Australia unambiguously refer to themselves as Australian.
  - dilap 11y ago
    Yeah, in my mind it's you-es-ian. Which doesn't seem particularly awkward or hard to say to me (but maybe a strange until you're used to it). It just seemed a natural term to me. I promise I wasn't using it to avoid a controversy (which I'm not even aware of!). In my experience with spanish speakers, they'll usually just say "gringos" (not as a derogatory term), but they'll also happily use "americanos" -- and don't seem to have any problem w/ it. (Tho Spanish it is literally an ambiguous word; you have to deduce from context whether it means from the USA or from the continent.)

by learc83 11y ago

eru 11y ago

> No other country name contains the word America [...] I checked the list of sovereign countries. It's actually true.

koralatov 11y ago

I completely agree with your post, and your correction of the abnormal/pedantic neologism 'USian' (how would that even be pronounced? /juːʃaɪn/? /ju ɛs aɪn/?). It's not just English speakers who use the term 'American' --- I've frequently heard it in use by Polish and Hungarian people when speaking their own language: "[Polish words] American [more Polish]".

ragazzina 11y ago

>The only measure of correctness for language is use, I'd posit the only measure of correctness for language is the ability of being understood, even before the use. So when I read and understand USian, I don't really care that much that it's less used than American to deem it "incorrect". If you don't like it, say so, but limited usage is a small reason to consider something "wrong".

learc83 11y ago
>I'd posit the only measure of correctness for language is the ability of being understood, even before the use. The ability to be understood is directly tied to use. If you use nonstandard constructions, fewer people will understand you. Less people understand USian than American precisely because it's not in common use. >but limited usage is a small reason to consider something "wrong". No, most linguists consider lack of use pretty much the only reason to consider something "wrong". When something is used enough to be in common use is a bit arbitrary, but USian has definitely not met that standard. You might as well start using USican or USperson. Beyond being very uncommon, it's also distracting even to people who do understand it. The capitalization is non-standard, and it's difficult to pronounce. The purpose of writing is to effectively communicate, and unless your goal is to purposely pull people out of the flow of your writing, it's not a good idea to use it.
- Nadya 11y ago
  How do you suggest a word gain common usage without people first using the term while it is both wrong and uncommon? It requires being adopted into peoples vocabulary before it could ever become a common word. >Beyond being very uncommon, it's also distracting even to people who do understand it. The capitalization is non-standard, and it's difficult to pronounce. The data points from this thread paint the opposite picture. You seem to be the only person distracted by it or having difficult pronouncing it. It always irks me that some linguists dislike the "changing" nature of living languages. Words and phrases go in and out of style, new phrases and words are invented, and some of those new words and phrases will make it into the common lexicon. Others will die out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them using USian other than it not being an "official" word. The intended meaning seems to be well understood by those reading it and there is no reason to assume motives, that behavior is annoying in and of itself. There is enough context clues in the message that even if the meaning isn't picked up on immediately, one can infer it. If the crux of your argument rests on people being confused by the word - the same could be said about a plethora of words.
  - learc83 11y ago
    Languages are going to change whether we like it our not. However, until something is in common use, using it makes your speech and writing more difficult to understand. A word may be in common use in the future, or it may have been in common use in the past, but if it isn't currently in common use, using it decreases your understandability. >The data points from this thread paint the opposite picture. You seem to be the only person distracted by it or having difficult pronouncing it. 2 out of 5 people in the thread who have expressed an opinion said it was distracting and hard to pronounce. 40% of our small sample size finds it distracting. I also have a fair amount of upvotes for my original comment. >If the crux of your argument rests on people being confused by the word - the same could be said about a plethora of words. If the percentage of your intended audience that is distracted by or doesn't understand "plethora" is larger than the percentage that prefers it to "a lot", I'd argue that you shouldn't use "plethora" either. >The intended meaning seems to be well understood by those reading it and there is no reason to assume motives, that behavior is annoying in and of itself. It's not common and was created for political purposes. There is a decrease in understandability over using the accepted term, what other purpose is there for using it? The term was specifically created and promoted by people who dislike the term American.

dilap 11y ago

Huh, that's interesting; it wasn't on purpose. But thinking about it, I guess "American" isn't really the most precise term, since there are a bunch of other countries in the Americas. I might be more aware of this, subconsciously, than your typical citizen of the USA because my wife is Mexican. Googling around shows I'm certainly not the only person using the term "USian". It's interesting how it's impossible to choose language without also choosing political sides. :)

learc83 11y ago
American is unambiguous in English because in the English speaking world there is no continent called America and no one uses the term American to mean they are from the western hemisphere (in English that is). >Googling around shows I'm certainly not the only person using the term "USian". You're not, but nearly everyone using it is doing so out of some desire to avoid a non existent controversy. It's also used so rarely that you'll often run into people who've never heard the term. In addition, it's very difficult to pronounce and will therefore likely never be widely adopted. Do you say "you-es-ians" when speaking? It's a very similar situation to Australia. There is more than one country that is part of the Australian continent, yet people from the Commonwealth of Australia unambiguously refer to themselves as Australian.
- dilap 11y ago
  Yeah, in my mind it's you-es-ian. Which doesn't seem particularly awkward or hard to say to me (but maybe a strange until you're used to it). It just seemed a natural term to me. I promise I wasn't using it to avoid a controversy (which I'm not even aware of!). In my experience with spanish speakers, they'll usually just say "gringos" (not as a derogatory term), but they'll also happily use "americanos" -- and don't seem to have any problem w/ it. (Tho Spanish it is literally an ambiguous word; you have to deduce from context whether it means from the USA or from the continent.)