4 ms·

I doubt the author's daughter cares about legacy browser support.

by hatsix 11y ago

sago 11y ago
A dismissive dev's 'legacy' browser, is 25% of actual web users. You can dismiss them as legacy if you like, but there isn't a minimum age before you get told your site sucks because a quarter of people get crap when they load it. I pretty sure my kid would care if that happened.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  It's a chance to do good in the world. Throw in some legacy detection and spit out a big message to legacy users to upgrade to a modern browser.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    They are using a modern browser. Modern => something that was produced in the last couple of years. That the computer industry still can't get stuff right and forces users into an upgrade (which may or may not work, could quite possibly lead to a borked browser or even a totally borked system leading them to have to 'upgrade' to a more modern operating system, which in turn may require them to shell out money for new hardware) is no reason to push the responsibility for the laziness of web developers onto the end users.
  - sago 11y ago
    And if they can't upgrade, or won't, or don't want to, or don't trust you to tell them to install something? We went through this years ago with IE6, there were always plenty of devs with variations of "screw 'em", but blaming or penalising users for their set up is a bit of a dick move, and shutting out or inconveniencing a big chunk of potential market is not a good business strategy. There does come a point where the cost of supporting a browser exceeds the value of the people using it, but I'd be surprised if most sites have hit that for IE8 (the third most used browser, more than twice the market share of the most used firefox).
- jfoster 11y ago
  Those versions of IE might represent 25% of web users, but any given website will probably see them as much less than 25%. I run multiple sites, and most of them have IE (any version) as under 10% of users. One of them doesn't; IE represents ~13.5% of users on that one. My untested theory about this is that IE users are generally less adventurous web users, sticking to sites like Gmail, YouTube, local news sites, etc. TLDR: unless you're working on Gmail or a site where you expect to soon see the world turn up at the doorstep, it might be safe for you to mostly ignore IE.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    My proven theory is that if you don't support users with particular browsers those users will tend to no longer support your website in return.
    - jfoster 11y ago
      I agree; that's where it gets a bit tricky. You're not going to have many repeat customers who can't use your product. You have to either be enhancing an existing product where you know that the segment in question isn't worthwhile supporting, or be prepared to estimate whether that segment is going to be meaningful for you. Another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes the result isn't a deal-breaker. Suppose I try to get vertical centering working on one of my sites using flexbox. Perhaps the 5% IE users simply see the content of each div at the top rather than being vertically centered. Not ideal, but not the worst possible outcome, either. Out of interest, does anyone know how flexboxes break on IE if you try to use them for vertical centering? Does the content actually just sit at the top?
      - jacquesm 11y ago
        The problem is that 25% of your customers could easily represent 100% of your profits. So by the time you're done with all your fixed costs and still need to turn a profit having a few % more or less users may make the difference between a company that will succeed or one that will tank. That's why any commercial entity will be very wary of closing the door on paying users no matter how old their setup is.
hysan 11y ago
I bet she will when she tries to access her website at school. Schools aren't exactly keeping their browsers up to date nor are they going to install alternative browsers. It's important to think about how her audience will access her content. Since she's a student, the first viewing will almost certainly be through a school computer as she shows it off. After that, perhaps less so, but kids like to goof off at school. That's probably when they will be most willing to visit the website.

I doubt the author's daughter cares about legacy browser support.

by hatsix 11y ago

I doubt the author's daughter cares about legacy browser support.

sago 11y ago

A dismissive dev's 'legacy' browser, is 25% of actual web users. You can dismiss them as legacy if you like, but there isn't a minimum age before you get told your site sucks because a quarter of people get crap when they load it. I pretty sure my kid would care if that happened.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
It's a chance to do good in the world. Throw in some legacy detection and spit out a big message to legacy users to upgrade to a modern browser.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  They are using a modern browser. Modern => something that was produced in the last couple of years. That the computer industry still can't get stuff right and forces users into an upgrade (which may or may not work, could quite possibly lead to a borked browser or even a totally borked system leading them to have to 'upgrade' to a more modern operating system, which in turn may require them to shell out money for new hardware) is no reason to push the responsibility for the laziness of web developers onto the end users.
- sago 11y ago
  And if they can't upgrade, or won't, or don't want to, or don't trust you to tell them to install something? We went through this years ago with IE6, there were always plenty of devs with variations of "screw 'em", but blaming or penalising users for their set up is a bit of a dick move, and shutting out or inconveniencing a big chunk of potential market is not a good business strategy. There does come a point where the cost of supporting a browser exceeds the value of the people using it, but I'd be surprised if most sites have hit that for IE8 (the third most used browser, more than twice the market share of the most used firefox).
jfoster 11y ago
Those versions of IE might represent 25% of web users, but any given website will probably see them as much less than 25%. I run multiple sites, and most of them have IE (any version) as under 10% of users. One of them doesn't; IE represents ~13.5% of users on that one. My untested theory about this is that IE users are generally less adventurous web users, sticking to sites like Gmail, YouTube, local news sites, etc. TLDR: unless you're working on Gmail or a site where you expect to soon see the world turn up at the doorstep, it might be safe for you to mostly ignore IE.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  My proven theory is that if you don't support users with particular browsers those users will tend to no longer support your website in return.
  - jfoster 11y ago
    I agree; that's where it gets a bit tricky. You're not going to have many repeat customers who can't use your product. You have to either be enhancing an existing product where you know that the segment in question isn't worthwhile supporting, or be prepared to estimate whether that segment is going to be meaningful for you. Another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes the result isn't a deal-breaker. Suppose I try to get vertical centering working on one of my sites using flexbox. Perhaps the 5% IE users simply see the content of each div at the top rather than being vertically centered. Not ideal, but not the worst possible outcome, either. Out of interest, does anyone know how flexboxes break on IE if you try to use them for vertical centering? Does the content actually just sit at the top?
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      The problem is that 25% of your customers could easily represent 100% of your profits. So by the time you're done with all your fixed costs and still need to turn a profit having a few % more or less users may make the difference between a company that will succeed or one that will tank. That's why any commercial entity will be very wary of closing the door on paying users no matter how old their setup is.

hysan 11y ago

I bet she will when she tries to access her website at school. Schools aren't exactly keeping their browsers up to date nor are they going to install alternative browsers. It's important to think about how her audience will access her content. Since she's a student, the first viewing will almost certainly be through a school computer as she shows it off. After that, perhaps less so, but kids like to goof off at school. That's probably when they will be most willing to visit the website.