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Its not justice, and thats the point. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't really seem to apply much to those Dads' who openly love their kids and wish to expr

Its not justice, and thats the point. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't really seem to apply much to those Dads' who openly love their kids and wish to express that love physically - i.e. hugs, kisses, hand-holding, care. Its a tragic circumstance that a man can't express his love for his kids without having to suffer from social stigma at the hands of those who think they are doing society a favor by propagating the dogma that any man who loves a child must be an offender. I've certainly run into it in my life often enough that I think its really insane that Dads can't love their kids without this threat. I guess it is in some ways similar to the prejudices that the other sexes experience, and maybe fundamentally its sourced from the same conscious/subconscious desire to control the way other people live their lives, regardless of differences/similarities between the relevant parties. If someone wants to hug their kids and openly show affection in the face of social stigma, I think its really the only way out for all of us. Love, above all.

erikpukinskis 11y ago
I agree. I don't understand why you think fighting against affection and care is "social justice". Sounds like the opposite to me.
- ticviking 11y ago
  SWJ does not refer to most feminists, or social justice advocated. The term originated from, and is most associated with a vocal sub-culture of anti-male feminists largely on tumblr, though somewhat in the larger blog-o-sphere. It's classical puritan pearl clutching with the sacred cows of the left instead of the right, totally annoying, and totally completely normal and well within the tradition of American moral panics.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    The term SJW is almost entirely used by misogynistic idiots. Can you point to any "SJWs" who think fathers should not show affection to their daughters? So far the only suggestions it might not be okay have come from people railing against SJWs.
    - ticviking 11y ago
      I find it amusing that defining the term is met by an instant ad hominem attack making a claim that all users of the term are unintelligent woman haters. No I'm not aware of any example right off the top of my head. I'm sure I could cherry-pick something if I looked hard enough. That's not the point I was aiming to communicate though. You are quite right that they are involved in an ongoing ideological battle with "the neckbeards" online. Regardless of who tends to use it. The term SJW is pointing to a community that exists on tumblr, that claims to be serving social justice, and holds to a wildly exaggerated definition of basically every term in social science relating to power, oppression, and identity politics. This same community tends to be rather wildly reactive to basically everything that upsets them. They're a vocal minority, as real as and about as rare as the tea party or rabid Trump supporters.
      - hyperpape 11y ago
        It's an insult, and you didn't bother to hide it in your parent post. If you're surprised that the people being insulted don't take kindly to it, life is going to be very frustrating for you.
        ticviking 11y ago
        Amusement and surprise are in fact different emotions. In general the utility of SJW as a label is strongly attached to the fact that the community in which the label originated is not one people wish to be associated with.
      - DanBC 11y ago
        So a few people point to "SJWs" as causing problems for men showing affection to their daughters, but noone can provide any examples. This is, to you, evidence that "SJWs" are winning. To me it's another example of the lies and misinformation spread by misogyinists.
        ticviking 11y ago
        When did I make a claim that they were winning? I feel like you are arguing with someone else in your replies to me. When did I ever make a claim that "the SJWs" were winning? Someone asked what the term meant, I took the time to dereference the pointer for them, and provided a bit of the origin of the term. I also added a bit of snark about how the whole phenomena is a completely normal re-occurring part of American social discourse. The SJWs, prohibitionists, and witch hunts are all a part of the same line of moral panics that eschew logic and argument in favor of emotions and appeals to moral authority. They happen every 3-4 generations in the US, and probably come from the Utopian ideals of the Pilgrims that has evolved into the american progressive movement.
  - mcv 11y ago
    But still, using SJW as something negative sounds odd. And as a matter of fact, I know a lot of feminists, including male ones, who care deeply about social justice and tend to identify with the term SJW. The argument shouldn't be whether social justice is good or bad, but about what social justice really entails. Clearly, man-hate has no place in it; no kind of hatred of a general class of people is just.
- biot 11y ago
  From what I've seen, it's generally meant to be read ironically. Think "social justice rage" vs "social justice advocate".

erikpukinskis 11y ago

I agree. I don't understand why you think fighting against affection and care is "social justice". Sounds like the opposite to me.

ticviking 11y ago
SWJ does not refer to most feminists, or social justice advocated. The term originated from, and is most associated with a vocal sub-culture of anti-male feminists largely on tumblr, though somewhat in the larger blog-o-sphere. It's classical puritan pearl clutching with the sacred cows of the left instead of the right, totally annoying, and totally completely normal and well within the tradition of American moral panics.
- DanBC 11y ago
  The term SJW is almost entirely used by misogynistic idiots. Can you point to any "SJWs" who think fathers should not show affection to their daughters? So far the only suggestions it might not be okay have come from people railing against SJWs.
  - ticviking 11y ago
    I find it amusing that defining the term is met by an instant ad hominem attack making a claim that all users of the term are unintelligent woman haters. No I'm not aware of any example right off the top of my head. I'm sure I could cherry-pick something if I looked hard enough. That's not the point I was aiming to communicate though. You are quite right that they are involved in an ongoing ideological battle with "the neckbeards" online. Regardless of who tends to use it. The term SJW is pointing to a community that exists on tumblr, that claims to be serving social justice, and holds to a wildly exaggerated definition of basically every term in social science relating to power, oppression, and identity politics. This same community tends to be rather wildly reactive to basically everything that upsets them. They're a vocal minority, as real as and about as rare as the tea party or rabid Trump supporters.
    - hyperpape 11y ago
      It's an insult, and you didn't bother to hide it in your parent post. If you're surprised that the people being insulted don't take kindly to it, life is going to be very frustrating for you.
      - ticviking 11y ago
        Amusement and surprise are in fact different emotions. In general the utility of SJW as a label is strongly attached to the fact that the community in which the label originated is not one people wish to be associated with.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      So a few people point to "SJWs" as causing problems for men showing affection to their daughters, but noone can provide any examples. This is, to you, evidence that "SJWs" are winning. To me it's another example of the lies and misinformation spread by misogyinists.
      - ticviking 11y ago
        When did I make a claim that they were winning? I feel like you are arguing with someone else in your replies to me. When did I ever make a claim that "the SJWs" were winning? Someone asked what the term meant, I took the time to dereference the pointer for them, and provided a bit of the origin of the term. I also added a bit of snark about how the whole phenomena is a completely normal re-occurring part of American social discourse. The SJWs, prohibitionists, and witch hunts are all a part of the same line of moral panics that eschew logic and argument in favor of emotions and appeals to moral authority. They happen every 3-4 generations in the US, and probably come from the Utopian ideals of the Pilgrims that has evolved into the american progressive movement.
- mcv 11y ago
  But still, using SJW as something negative sounds odd. And as a matter of fact, I know a lot of feminists, including male ones, who care deeply about social justice and tend to identify with the term SJW. The argument shouldn't be whether social justice is good or bad, but about what social justice really entails. Clearly, man-hate has no place in it; no kind of hatred of a general class of people is just.
biot 11y ago
From what I've seen, it's generally meant to be read ironically. Think "social justice rage" vs "social justice advocate".