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Put biologically: tenacity is permissive for success. More pertinently, has anyone ever been both a failure and labeled as tenacious? Tenacity seems like one o

Put biologically: tenacity is permissive for success. More pertinently, has anyone ever been both a failure and labeled as tenacious? Tenacity seems like one of those words that we use to describe successful people, making the linkage almost embedded within the word and, therefore, uninteresting.

tonystubblebine 17y ago
That's a good point. I think it highlights that we judge people by the number of successes, not the ratio of successes. Even tenacious people who are not very good tend to keep going long enough to have a few successes under their belt. I'm thinking specifically of a difficult person that I worked with who was terrible at their job but went on to get a company launched and a book published. They weren't the greatest in either case, but it's a good example of how tenacity changes the game. There's a big difference between being described as a Failed X vs. Published Author.
migpwr 17y ago
Don't tenacious failures exist in professional sports? In boxing, there are fighters who never achieve "greatness", or see much success, but are regarded as having heart. What could be more tenacious than knowing you're outmatched and still getting up to press the fight? The 09' Celtics might also be an example. So, yes, I'd say there are people/organizations who are failures and labeled tenacious.
epi0Bauqu 17y ago
My first startup failed and yet I was labeled as tenacious with regards to it.
- carbocation 17y ago
  The startup may have been labeled a failure, but you were not labeled so (at least, not to my knowledge). The distinction is critical to my point. If that first business were successful, people fond of the buzzword 'tenacious' might label you tenacious, for toughing out the hard times in order to 'win'. Since it failed, they could keep the buzzword alive by bumping it up a level and saying that you were tenacious in pursuing the entrepreneurial dream, wisely jettisoning that failed project and learning great lessons along the way. Neither of those uses of the word would surprise me. What would be surprising is if the word 'tenacious' were to be decoupled from success. That is, if you never hit it big but were so renowned for your tenacity that you nevertheless got press or recognition for it. Perhaps Daniel Ruettiger (Rudy, from Notre Dame fame) is the best example of someone who is recognized for his tenacity despite not achieving canonical success.* * = at least, not in football; he is making plenty as a motivational speaker.

tonystubblebine 17y ago

That's a good point. I think it highlights that we judge people by the number of successes, not the ratio of successes. Even tenacious people who are not very good tend to keep going long enough to have a few successes under their belt. I'm thinking specifically of a difficult person that I worked with who was terrible at their job but went on to get a company launched and a book published. They weren't the greatest in either case, but it's a good example of how tenacity changes the game. There's a big difference between being described as a Failed X vs. Published Author.

migpwr 17y ago

Don't tenacious failures exist in professional sports? In boxing, there are fighters who never achieve "greatness", or see much success, but are regarded as having heart. What could be more tenacious than knowing you're outmatched and still getting up to press the fight? The 09' Celtics might also be an example. So, yes, I'd say there are people/organizations who are failures and labeled tenacious.

epi0Bauqu 17y ago

My first startup failed and yet I was labeled as tenacious with regards to it.

carbocation 17y ago
The startup may have been labeled a failure, but you were not labeled so (at least, not to my knowledge). The distinction is critical to my point. If that first business were successful, people fond of the buzzword 'tenacious' might label you tenacious, for toughing out the hard times in order to 'win'. Since it failed, they could keep the buzzword alive by bumping it up a level and saying that you were tenacious in pursuing the entrepreneurial dream, wisely jettisoning that failed project and learning great lessons along the way. Neither of those uses of the word would surprise me. What would be surprising is if the word 'tenacious' were to be decoupled from success. That is, if you never hit it big but were so renowned for your tenacity that you nevertheless got press or recognition for it. Perhaps Daniel Ruettiger (Rudy, from Notre Dame fame) is the best example of someone who is recognized for his tenacity despite not achieving canonical success.* * = at least, not in football; he is making plenty as a motivational speaker.