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"Roma criminality"... "they have no self-love"... Sorry, but this is xenophobia, and Europeans are better than Americans at it. The systematic exclusion of grou

"Roma criminality"... "they have no self-love"... Sorry, but this is xenophobia, and Europeans are better than Americans at it. The systematic exclusion of groups from the mainstream creates extra-legal behaviors (or "culture", as you say) to make ends meet. Plus, Europeans love a scapegoat; it's part of a long, illiberal tradition on the continent.

aikah 11y ago
> Europeans are better than Americans at it Oh please, Ok, let's talk about the racism against blacks in US before talking about the alleged European xenophobia.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  It never pays to generalize about a culture/race/society not ones own. Such effort gains little more than bigotry.
- DanDanDanDan 11y ago
  Let's talk about both!
rg_ 11y ago
This might prove unpopular but why can we never call a spade a spade? In the area I lived in London for 15 years there were numerous traveller communities. Out of the 50+ I met in person over that time period how many do you think were pleasant? About 4. The rest tried to rob us, intimidate us, bully us, outright harm us, usually all for no reason except, "we are not them". They near literally destroy whatever area they decide to live in. The youngest person to pull a knife on a group of us was an 8yo traveller child. They just don't give a fuck in any sense. I agree that they behave like this, in part, because they do not feel included as part of "normal" society. But I have to ask: Why in hell would anyone want these people in their society when they behave like this? And so continues the endless circle of crime against society and societies hate against them (which really... is justified?). So we have this endless circle. To me the question is: Why don't they break this circle? Society offers them help, education, support in varying amounts which is there. They refuse to take it, because they do not appear to want to live under societies rules. Then you have others come along and say "Well you're Xenophobic". Really? I'm Xenophobic, despite working alongside people of all races, religions, creeds with no problem at all? All because I don't want to be harmed and have my home life made a misery by a shitty person who feels the law and societies rules do not apply to them in any way? If anything, isn't it they who are xenophobic? As they outright refuse to assimilate into the society they live in in any way, shape or form. I'll never automatically hate a person because of their birth, that's incredibly stupid. But certain groups I'll be wary of, until they prove which direction (good/bad) they lean, because past experience of that group has taught me to be (and isn't that their fault?). To not be wary seems blind and itself... incredibly stupid.
- DanDanDanDan 11y ago
  Well, I think you have to look at these cases individually. The same thing you write here echos what is written by conservative commentators about poor African American communities in the US. Of course, such commentary conveniently excludes the way poverty and unemployment is structural to the US economy and that there are systematic forms of racism embedded in the US legal code. These empirical realities force communities of color to take part in extra-legal activities and the violence that comes along with those activities. All of a sudden, "normal" society - as you put it - looks like a society of oppressors and "these people" - as you put it - look more like the oppressed than a bunch of ne'er do wells.

aikah 11y ago

> Europeans are better than Americans at it Oh please, Ok, let's talk about the racism against blacks in US before talking about the alleged European xenophobia.

fit2rule 11y ago
It never pays to generalize about a culture/race/society not ones own. Such effort gains little more than bigotry.
DanDanDanDan 11y ago
Let's talk about both!

rg_ 11y ago

This might prove unpopular but why can we never call a spade a spade? In the area I lived in London for 15 years there were numerous traveller communities. Out of the 50+ I met in person over that time period how many do you think were pleasant? About 4. The rest tried to rob us, intimidate us, bully us, outright harm us, usually all for no reason except, "we are not them". They near literally destroy whatever area they decide to live in. The youngest person to pull a knife on a group of us was an 8yo traveller child. They just don't give a fuck in any sense. I agree that they behave like this, in part, because they do not feel included as part of "normal" society. But I have to ask: Why in hell would anyone want these people in their society when they behave like this? And so continues the endless circle of crime against society and societies hate against them (which really... is justified?). So we have this endless circle. To me the question is: Why don't they break this circle? Society offers them help, education, support in varying amounts which is there. They refuse to take it, because they do not appear to want to live under societies rules. Then you have others come along and say "Well you're Xenophobic". Really? I'm Xenophobic, despite working alongside people of all races, religions, creeds with no problem at all? All because I don't want to be harmed and have my home life made a misery by a shitty person who feels the law and societies rules do not apply to them in any way? If anything, isn't it they who are xenophobic? As they outright refuse to assimilate into the society they live in in any way, shape or form. I'll never automatically hate a person because of their birth, that's incredibly stupid. But certain groups I'll be wary of, until they prove which direction (good/bad) they lean, because past experience of that group has taught me to be (and isn't that their fault?). To not be wary seems blind and itself... incredibly stupid.

DanDanDanDan 11y ago
Well, I think you have to look at these cases individually. The same thing you write here echos what is written by conservative commentators about poor African American communities in the US. Of course, such commentary conveniently excludes the way poverty and unemployment is structural to the US economy and that there are systematic forms of racism embedded in the US legal code. These empirical realities force communities of color to take part in extra-legal activities and the violence that comes along with those activities. All of a sudden, "normal" society - as you put it - looks like a society of oppressors and "these people" - as you put it - look more like the oppressed than a bunch of ne'er do wells.