4 ms·

Now, at first I was thinking this was a relatively sane feature like Apple's Software Update Server (which caches and re-serves updates for your local network)[

Now, at first I was thinking this was a relatively sane feature like Apple's Software Update Server (which caches and re-serves updates for your local network)[1]. It's a very useful tool, considering the fact that when iOS 7 came out, it took out my entire high school's network because everyone was downloading it. This isn't transparently helping serve updates to computers on a local network to save bandwidth. It transparently serves updates to the entire world, to eat your bandwidth and conserve only Microsoft's. Is there a word in English that captures how massively disappointed I am with this being on every Win10 computer and by default? [1]: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20071009082248452 http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=2007100908224845...

eli 11y ago
It seemed to work out fine for Spotify
- striking 11y ago
  That's likely because MP3 files are smaller than Windows Service packs, and because Spotify is a thing you install yourself. Windows comes with the computer, with this turned on. Also, Spotify is no longer P2P anyway, because it only served as a temporary cost-saving measure. And now it's gone. [1] 1: https://torrentfreak.com/spotify-starts-shutting-down-its-massive-p2p-network-140416/ https://torrentfreak.com/spotify-starts-shutting-down-its-ma...
- rohansingh 11y ago
  With Spotify, the aim was low latency. If you click on a song, it should start playing immediately. There's no such requirement for software updates. Back when the only data center was in Stockholm, the only way to meet latency requirements was P2P. Now that we're a grown-up company we've disabled that and use CDN's instead.
  - RKearney 11y ago
    > With Spotify, the aim was low latency. If you click on a song, it should start playing immediately. That was not their aim at all. Their aim was lowering bandwidth costs by shifting the content delivery costs over to the end users. This was made clear by the fact that when you played a song, it started downloading the song from AWS S3 immediately to minimize latency, then once the P2P sessions fired up, shifted over to that stream instead of their costly S3 one.
  - kamekai 11y ago
    I had always assumed that the P2P was to help mitigate the cost of data so that the Spotify team could better use their limited (at the time) funds to secure more music contracts. Were operational costs not as drastic as I might be assuming?
- pbreit 11y ago
  Spotify's P2P usage enabled the amazingly fast response times which made every user's life better on an ongoing basis. That's a pretty fair tradeoff.
Silhouette 11y ago
Is there a word in English that captures how massively disappointed I am with this being on every Win10 computer and by default? "Illegal" would seem to be a good start in many jurisdictions. For example, as described in the article, I can't see how this behaviour doesn't fall foul of computer misuse and fraud laws in the UK. The best defence might be that somewhere buried in the terms and conditions it's allowed, but I wouldn't like to be the Microsoft lawyer arguing that position before a judge.
- cma 11y ago
  Blizzard have done this for WoW updates forever. MS may run into some liability for inducing data overages depending on how up front they are about it and how badly it bites people.
  - rhino369 11y ago
    Iirc windows 10 install asks if you have metered Internet. I bet they turn this off if you click no. But that's speculation. I remember when people thought BitTorrent would revolutionize file hosting. Now people think it's stealing bandwidth.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - LoSboccacc 11y ago
      Default setting is disabled for metered connections. One can also set it up to p2p updates locally but not on internet. Don't know why ms didn't play it safe and put internet resharing as an opt in... Oh and I don't remeber but I think you can't set a wired connection as metered.
      - rhino369 11y ago
        If you cannot set wired as metered then it's bullshit.
  - 11y ago
jchomali 11y ago
works in a similar way than most services

eli 11y ago

It seemed to work out fine for Spotify

striking 11y ago
That's likely because MP3 files are smaller than Windows Service packs, and because Spotify is a thing you install yourself. Windows comes with the computer, with this turned on. Also, Spotify is no longer P2P anyway, because it only served as a temporary cost-saving measure. And now it's gone. [1] 1: https://torrentfreak.com/spotify-starts-shutting-down-its-massive-p2p-network-140416/ https://torrentfreak.com/spotify-starts-shutting-down-its-ma...
rohansingh 11y ago
With Spotify, the aim was low latency. If you click on a song, it should start playing immediately. There's no such requirement for software updates. Back when the only data center was in Stockholm, the only way to meet latency requirements was P2P. Now that we're a grown-up company we've disabled that and use CDN's instead.
- RKearney 11y ago
  > With Spotify, the aim was low latency. If you click on a song, it should start playing immediately. That was not their aim at all. Their aim was lowering bandwidth costs by shifting the content delivery costs over to the end users. This was made clear by the fact that when you played a song, it started downloading the song from AWS S3 immediately to minimize latency, then once the P2P sessions fired up, shifted over to that stream instead of their costly S3 one.
- kamekai 11y ago
  I had always assumed that the P2P was to help mitigate the cost of data so that the Spotify team could better use their limited (at the time) funds to secure more music contracts. Were operational costs not as drastic as I might be assuming?
pbreit 11y ago
Spotify's P2P usage enabled the amazingly fast response times which made every user's life better on an ongoing basis. That's a pretty fair tradeoff.

Silhouette 11y ago

Is there a word in English that captures how massively disappointed I am with this being on every Win10 computer and by default? "Illegal" would seem to be a good start in many jurisdictions. For example, as described in the article, I can't see how this behaviour doesn't fall foul of computer misuse and fraud laws in the UK. The best defence might be that somewhere buried in the terms and conditions it's allowed, but I wouldn't like to be the Microsoft lawyer arguing that position before a judge.

cma 11y ago
Blizzard have done this for WoW updates forever. MS may run into some liability for inducing data overages depending on how up front they are about it and how badly it bites people.
- rhino369 11y ago
  Iirc windows 10 install asks if you have metered Internet. I bet they turn this off if you click no. But that's speculation. I remember when people thought BitTorrent would revolutionize file hosting. Now people think it's stealing bandwidth.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - LoSboccacc 11y ago
    Default setting is disabled for metered connections. One can also set it up to p2p updates locally but not on internet. Don't know why ms didn't play it safe and put internet resharing as an opt in... Oh and I don't remeber but I think you can't set a wired connection as metered.
    - rhino369 11y ago
      If you cannot set wired as metered then it's bullshit.
- 11y ago

jchomali 11y ago

works in a similar way than most services