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I have admitted my passion elsewhere in this thread. Is the population of HN not passionate about things? This is, from my years long lurking of the site (I hav

I have admitted my passion elsewhere in this thread. Is the population of HN not passionate about things? This is, from my years long lurking of the site (I have lurked here since at least 2009 that I can clearly remember) one of the places on the internet where passion can be shared in a responsible way. I do not seek to bash those who doubt the plane on a personal level. What I would hope is that I address their objections from fact. Now, if the facts support their arguments, then I would like to think that I would be the first to admit that. But if the facts are otherwise, then I hope I've done a good job of linking to and explaining public information. And this interaction has sort of confirmed why I am always hesitant to talk about what I do (aside from the obvious reasons why people in this industry are encouraged to not say much), because people see that and make some disparaging remarks. I am not thrilled.

nitrogen 11y ago
I am not thrilled. Only quoting final sentence since I'm typing this on a phone... Without excusing the behavior of your accusers, I think it's probably motivated by the association between the incredibly fascinating engineering work, and the military "work" to which that engineering will later be applied. It's always going to be difficult to converse productively with such an elephant in the room, but your patience in the thread is exemplary.
- engi_nerd 11y ago
  To be blunt: you wind up working on things that are explicitly designed to kill other human beings. That is what you are saying. That's the elephant. Many here would find such a thing immoral and unethical. I know that. I have my own personal reasons for doing what I do. They make sense for my own life. So fnordfnordfnord already linked to a comment where I mention working on sounding rockets (in addition to the aircraft/telemetry) Those are for purely scientific research. I've done the peaeceful engineering thing, I guess. And the program does some good science! But if you look at my comment history more, I have some comments where I talk about working in a really bad environment. Guess what? Same place, the sounding rocket program. So I left and changed jobs. To be honest, I try not to worry about all of this so much, mainly because I'm actually happy to go to work now. I am, however, usually happy to discuss this seeming contradiction of trying to be a moral/ethical person while working in aerospace... Just because I don't think about it every day doesn't mean I haven't examined and reflected upon it.
fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
>Is the population of HN not passionate about things? Of course. And by the way, my skepticism of your motives isn't meant to be taken personal. Apologies if you're insulted. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's appropriate/proper to disclose in advance that you work in aerospace if you're going to argue pro or against a huge aerospace defense project. Since the disclosure of the existence of things like JTRIG and some of the HB Gary antics I don't think it is too far-fetched that one might encounter some sketchy things in discussion forums. >(aside from the obvious reasons why people in this industry are encouraged to not say much) I'll tell you that a comment you made earlier made my spidey-sense tingle. You mentioned not linking some already-leaked to the public report because it is ITAR controlled, and that pretty much makes you as a person who has a clearance/connection to military/defense work. >because people see that and make some disparaging remarks. I am not thrilled. You can't make everyone like you, especially if your identity is tied to a politically polarizing industry; and you definitely can't make everyone like tremendously expensive weapons projects. Even then, it's not personal. Some of the people who are unabashedly critical of defense/aerospace may well have some very good reasons for it.
- engi_nerd 11y ago
  I don't expect everyone to like me. I don't expect everyone to like the plane, either. There are days when I don't like it very much. What you did seemed very personal to me in the moment I read your comment. I got a sinking feeling in my chest. Because I don't know who you are, and what your motives are. Now, from seeing further discussion with you, I don't think you mean anything malicious, but I had that little momentary stab of unease.
  - fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
    >I don't expect everyone to like me. You're just some random person who comments on the same message board. I doubt I've ever met you, or will meet you in person; but if we were at a backyard barbecue, who knows, we might become pals. I don't require my friends to be a facsimile of me. Like I said it wasn't personal. >What you did seemed very personal to me in the moment I read your comment. I found that comment on the second page of your HN history. If you don't want anyone to know it you need to rethink the kinds things you post here. >I got a sinking feeling in my chest. Why? >I don't think you mean anything malicious What could possibly have been malicious about my perusal of two pages of your post history and my post. Another poster suggested that you might work in defense/aerospace (and therefore may have an ulterior motive). I posted a snippet from your history that suggests that you may indeed be employed in defense/aerospace. Those were your words. I made no remarks disparaging defense/aerospace workers, and I don't make moral judgements against people who choose that as a career. >I had that little momentary stab of unease. What end do you think I was trying to achieve?

nitrogen 11y ago

I am not thrilled. Only quoting final sentence since I'm typing this on a phone... Without excusing the behavior of your accusers, I think it's probably motivated by the association between the incredibly fascinating engineering work, and the military "work" to which that engineering will later be applied. It's always going to be difficult to converse productively with such an elephant in the room, but your patience in the thread is exemplary.

engi_nerd 11y ago
To be blunt: you wind up working on things that are explicitly designed to kill other human beings. That is what you are saying. That's the elephant. Many here would find such a thing immoral and unethical. I know that. I have my own personal reasons for doing what I do. They make sense for my own life. So fnordfnordfnord already linked to a comment where I mention working on sounding rockets (in addition to the aircraft/telemetry) Those are for purely scientific research. I've done the peaeceful engineering thing, I guess. And the program does some good science! But if you look at my comment history more, I have some comments where I talk about working in a really bad environment. Guess what? Same place, the sounding rocket program. So I left and changed jobs. To be honest, I try not to worry about all of this so much, mainly because I'm actually happy to go to work now. I am, however, usually happy to discuss this seeming contradiction of trying to be a moral/ethical person while working in aerospace... Just because I don't think about it every day doesn't mean I haven't examined and reflected upon it.

fnordfnordfnord 11y ago

>Is the population of HN not passionate about things? Of course. And by the way, my skepticism of your motives isn't meant to be taken personal. Apologies if you're insulted. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's appropriate/proper to disclose in advance that you work in aerospace if you're going to argue pro or against a huge aerospace defense project. Since the disclosure of the existence of things like JTRIG and some of the HB Gary antics I don't think it is too far-fetched that one might encounter some sketchy things in discussion forums. >(aside from the obvious reasons why people in this industry are encouraged to not say much) I'll tell you that a comment you made earlier made my spidey-sense tingle. You mentioned not linking some already-leaked to the public report because it is ITAR controlled, and that pretty much makes you as a person who has a clearance/connection to military/defense work. >because people see that and make some disparaging remarks. I am not thrilled. You can't make everyone like you, especially if your identity is tied to a politically polarizing industry; and you definitely can't make everyone like tremendously expensive weapons projects. Even then, it's not personal. Some of the people who are unabashedly critical of defense/aerospace may well have some very good reasons for it.

engi_nerd 11y ago
I don't expect everyone to like me. I don't expect everyone to like the plane, either. There are days when I don't like it very much. What you did seemed very personal to me in the moment I read your comment. I got a sinking feeling in my chest. Because I don't know who you are, and what your motives are. Now, from seeing further discussion with you, I don't think you mean anything malicious, but I had that little momentary stab of unease.
- fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
  >I don't expect everyone to like me. You're just some random person who comments on the same message board. I doubt I've ever met you, or will meet you in person; but if we were at a backyard barbecue, who knows, we might become pals. I don't require my friends to be a facsimile of me. Like I said it wasn't personal. >What you did seemed very personal to me in the moment I read your comment. I found that comment on the second page of your HN history. If you don't want anyone to know it you need to rethink the kinds things you post here. >I got a sinking feeling in my chest. Why? >I don't think you mean anything malicious What could possibly have been malicious about my perusal of two pages of your post history and my post. Another poster suggested that you might work in defense/aerospace (and therefore may have an ulterior motive). I posted a snippet from your history that suggests that you may indeed be employed in defense/aerospace. Those were your words. I made no remarks disparaging defense/aerospace workers, and I don't make moral judgements against people who choose that as a career. >I had that little momentary stab of unease. What end do you think I was trying to achieve?