4 ms·

I wouldn't hold my breath. If I see protests in the street and there are more participants than just nerds, than I'll believe change is possible.

allendoerfer 11y ago
The decision was criticized by members of FDP, Greens, the Lefts and even SPD (which is in government). Associations of journalist, legal professions and IT professions are against it. There are really only some members of the CDU and the agencies, who are defending the prosecution. I would not underestimate the press here. They love to talk about themselves and have nothing else to talk about in the summer break anyway.
Zigurd 11y ago
Indeed. At best, over the next couple of years, it will become commonly acknowledged that almost all of the world that matters is a US empire, where even the most compliant vassals are monitored with a paranoid fervor. We have bred a neoliberal monoculture, and we'll be fucked when that proves to be brittle and we have no alternative models being practiced. We were promised an End of History and we're determined to have it.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  That is pretty insulting to other nations and demonstrably false as they clearly have agency.
  - Zigurd 11y ago
    Who is being insulted? How is a nation "insulted." You have the deep state, who are willing participants in this system of managing the people, and you have politicians who are the window dressing, who consent as well. Then you have the people, who are not to blame. Who, in this picture, would be "insulted?"
    - happyscrappy 11y ago
      People could elect politicians that choose to reduce ties with the US but they do not out of self interest. You are claiming they are all victims of a worldwide conspiracy.
      - Zigurd 11y ago
        Are you claiming Germany does not have a history with a deep state? To be more specific, are you claiming the US has not been effective in steering the direction of German domestic politics?
        happyscrappy 11y ago
        Germany is a special case due to severe restrictions on them after the holocaust, you claimed "almost all of the world that matters is a US empire". A claim which should be laughed at.
      - Zigurd 11y ago
        Wait, you must mean highly autonomous Japan. Ha. Ha. South Korea? No? How about a less developed highly populous Asian country like Philippines? Surely they must be democratic and "have agency." Oh snap! Shall we talk about how the term "banana republic" was coined?
chinathrow 11y ago
Don't underestimate the power of nerds. We're quite good at explaining other folks what is going on these days.
happyscrappy 11y ago
Or how about maybe close US military bases on German soil.
- DasIch 11y ago
  Nobody in Germany wants those to be closed. They are often very important to the local economy of the areas in which they are located. It's also convenient way to make sure it's in the interest of the US military to defend Germany, which means that at least one military that can be taken seriously is interested in that.
  - dmichulke 11y ago
    I know quite a lof of Germans that want them to be closed. Local politicians are usually not among them for the reasons you stated but instances of US military are not exactly admired these days and tolerated at best. There is also a group of people that considers Germany not sovereign and still US-occupied territory. Googling for "Deutschland Souveräner Staat" brings up some 75k hits and the top 10 are all related to this very question. I doubt these people are in favor of "US occupation"
    - DasIch 11y ago
      Well, sure there are quite a few people that are very critical of the US and some go as far as wanting to see theses bases go, but they are a minority. There is also no political party (worth mentioning) that has any interest in getting rid of them and there isn't any discussion of the topic in the media either. I don't see at all how it matters that there are conspiracy theorists who believe Germany not to be a sovereign state.
- joeyspn 11y ago
  ... or getting back the mysteriously missing german gold reserves... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-05/germany-s-gold-repatriation-activist-peter-boehringer-gets-results http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-05/germany-s-...

allendoerfer 11y ago

The decision was criticized by members of FDP, Greens, the Lefts and even SPD (which is in government). Associations of journalist, legal professions and IT professions are against it. There are really only some members of the CDU and the agencies, who are defending the prosecution. I would not underestimate the press here. They love to talk about themselves and have nothing else to talk about in the summer break anyway.

Zigurd 11y ago

Indeed. At best, over the next couple of years, it will become commonly acknowledged that almost all of the world that matters is a US empire, where even the most compliant vassals are monitored with a paranoid fervor. We have bred a neoliberal monoculture, and we'll be fucked when that proves to be brittle and we have no alternative models being practiced. We were promised an End of History and we're determined to have it.

happyscrappy 11y ago
That is pretty insulting to other nations and demonstrably false as they clearly have agency.
- Zigurd 11y ago
  Who is being insulted? How is a nation "insulted." You have the deep state, who are willing participants in this system of managing the people, and you have politicians who are the window dressing, who consent as well. Then you have the people, who are not to blame. Who, in this picture, would be "insulted?"
  - happyscrappy 11y ago
    People could elect politicians that choose to reduce ties with the US but they do not out of self interest. You are claiming they are all victims of a worldwide conspiracy.
    - Zigurd 11y ago
      Are you claiming Germany does not have a history with a deep state? To be more specific, are you claiming the US has not been effective in steering the direction of German domestic politics?
      - happyscrappy 11y ago
        Germany is a special case due to severe restrictions on them after the holocaust, you claimed "almost all of the world that matters is a US empire". A claim which should be laughed at.
    - Zigurd 11y ago
      Wait, you must mean highly autonomous Japan. Ha. Ha. South Korea? No? How about a less developed highly populous Asian country like Philippines? Surely they must be democratic and "have agency." Oh snap! Shall we talk about how the term "banana republic" was coined?

chinathrow 11y ago

Don't underestimate the power of nerds. We're quite good at explaining other folks what is going on these days.

happyscrappy 11y ago

Or how about maybe close US military bases on German soil.

DasIch 11y ago
Nobody in Germany wants those to be closed. They are often very important to the local economy of the areas in which they are located. It's also convenient way to make sure it's in the interest of the US military to defend Germany, which means that at least one military that can be taken seriously is interested in that.
- dmichulke 11y ago
  I know quite a lof of Germans that want them to be closed. Local politicians are usually not among them for the reasons you stated but instances of US military are not exactly admired these days and tolerated at best. There is also a group of people that considers Germany not sovereign and still US-occupied territory. Googling for "Deutschland Souveräner Staat" brings up some 75k hits and the top 10 are all related to this very question. I doubt these people are in favor of "US occupation"
  - DasIch 11y ago
    Well, sure there are quite a few people that are very critical of the US and some go as far as wanting to see theses bases go, but they are a minority. There is also no political party (worth mentioning) that has any interest in getting rid of them and there isn't any discussion of the topic in the media either. I don't see at all how it matters that there are conspiracy theorists who believe Germany not to be a sovereign state.
joeyspn 11y ago
... or getting back the mysteriously missing german gold reserves... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-05/germany-s-gold-repatriation-activist-peter-boehringer-gets-results http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-05/germany-s-...