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> The assertion that they are free won't mean much to these users Yes! Running a linux distro is NOT free. It's only free under the assumption that your time i

> The assertion that they are free won't mean much to these users Yes! Running a linux distro is NOT free. It's only free under the assumption that your time is worthless, which is true for precisely nobody. The true cost is a function of how valuable your time is vs the fixed cost of windows / buying a mac, assuming a relatively small constant setup time cost for both of these. This makes linux desktop distros, with their typically long and painful setup process, actually more expensive than Windows / OSX for basically everyone. The only case where it becomes worth it is when there's a return on your investment of that large initial cost, i.e. you'll either be taking advantage of linux a lot professionally or you just find playing with it very intellectually rewarding. Ergo, linux only appeals to engineers, academics and hackers. There's no solution to this per-se, it is what it is. Just a result of the economics of the current setup.

reedlaw 11y ago
I don't find this to be true in practice. Mac problems turn out to be extremely difficult if not impossible to solve. Your main recourse, if you don't live near Apple "Geniuses", is the support forums where the signal to noise ratio is very low. Problems that are a breeze to solve in Linux are a nightmare in OSX because all you have to go by are big shiny icons. With Linux you can look at log files, enable verbose output, or often even get help from the engineers who designed the software. It's true there is a steep learning curve in Linux. But the absence of a learning curve on OSX gives users a false sense of security that leaves them with nowhere to turn when problems arise.
- davnicwil 11y ago
  That's a very good point - the flip side of the same coin I guess, if you don't invest in understanding your OS at all, then when you hit a snag you're really in trouble. But, I still stand by the assertion that this doesn't really make a difference for most users. I mean, if you're talking about novice users, the ability to check logs, and talk to engineers is pretty useless anyway. The fact you can do this stuff is an advantage only if you're a pretty advanced user in the first place, and know enough to use that information to solve a problem.
  - reedlaw 11y ago
    What do inexperienced users do in such a case? Usually they find a more advanced user to help. Proprietary software stays in business because it works most of the time for the average use cases. But when it fails it doesn't matter much how experienced you are. You still have to wait for a patch or look for an alternative.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- arm 11y ago
  “Problems that are a breeze to solve in Linux are a nightmare in OSX because all you have to go by are big shiny icons. With Linux you can look at log files, enable verbose output, or often even get help from the engineers who designed the software.” Contrary to what you said, in my experience, problems in OS X are not a nightmare to solve compared to Linux. While you can’t exactly get help from the engineers who actually wrote OS X’s first-party software, I’ve solved quite a few issues in the past by going through logs in Console.app¹. Frankly, OS X gives you a lot more tools to solve issues than just “big shiny icons”. ―――――― ¹ — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_(Mac_OS_X) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_(Mac_OS_X)
iudhiubdiu 11y ago
> their typically long and painful setup process Mint can be installed in about 10 minutes with a handful of mouse clicks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKI024wUTUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKI024wUTUw

reedlaw 11y ago

I don't find this to be true in practice. Mac problems turn out to be extremely difficult if not impossible to solve. Your main recourse, if you don't live near Apple "Geniuses", is the support forums where the signal to noise ratio is very low. Problems that are a breeze to solve in Linux are a nightmare in OSX because all you have to go by are big shiny icons. With Linux you can look at log files, enable verbose output, or often even get help from the engineers who designed the software. It's true there is a steep learning curve in Linux. But the absence of a learning curve on OSX gives users a false sense of security that leaves them with nowhere to turn when problems arise.

davnicwil 11y ago
That's a very good point - the flip side of the same coin I guess, if you don't invest in understanding your OS at all, then when you hit a snag you're really in trouble. But, I still stand by the assertion that this doesn't really make a difference for most users. I mean, if you're talking about novice users, the ability to check logs, and talk to engineers is pretty useless anyway. The fact you can do this stuff is an advantage only if you're a pretty advanced user in the first place, and know enough to use that information to solve a problem.
- reedlaw 11y ago
  What do inexperienced users do in such a case? Usually they find a more advanced user to help. Proprietary software stays in business because it works most of the time for the average use cases. But when it fails it doesn't matter much how experienced you are. You still have to wait for a patch or look for an alternative.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
arm 11y ago
“Problems that are a breeze to solve in Linux are a nightmare in OSX because all you have to go by are big shiny icons. With Linux you can look at log files, enable verbose output, or often even get help from the engineers who designed the software.” Contrary to what you said, in my experience, problems in OS X are not a nightmare to solve compared to Linux. While you can’t exactly get help from the engineers who actually wrote OS X’s first-party software, I’ve solved quite a few issues in the past by going through logs in Console.app¹. Frankly, OS X gives you a lot more tools to solve issues than just “big shiny icons”. ―――――― ¹ — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_(Mac_OS_X) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_(Mac_OS_X)

iudhiubdiu 11y ago

> their typically long and painful setup process Mint can be installed in about 10 minutes with a handful of mouse clicks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKI024wUTUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKI024wUTUw