4 ms·

If they don't want to use the internet, they don't have to, right? The benefits and cost of internet use are concentrated on the individual, so I'm not sure tha

If they don't want to use the internet, they don't have to, right? The benefits and cost of internet use are concentrated on the individual, so I'm not sure that we should expend a lot of effort to force them to "join" the internet if they don't want it.

bryanlarsen 11y ago
That's the big question. How many services are only accessible via the internet? The government does a good job of trying to ensure 100% coverage, but private businesses certainly don't. For instance, can you apply for a job at McDonald's without an email address?
- striking 11y ago
  Yes, you can. http://i.imgur.com/JpbjPCX.png http://i.imgur.com/JpbjPCX.png Try clicking Crew Position here and then Submitting the autofilled code. You see the above image. https://www.mylocalmcds.com/3534mcdonalds/employment/#hiring-now https://www.mylocalmcds.com/3534mcdonalds/employment/#hiring...
roymurdock 11y ago
That's like saying, if a kid doesn't want to eat his vegetables or go to school, he shouldn't have to, right? Many people don't have the opportunity to learn how to use a computer. But having basic computer skills is a prerequisite to most entry-level, non-service jobs, and is becoming an increasingly important part of our social fabric. I would agree with your statement as it applies to people who know about/how to use the internet, and simply don't care. But not for the portion of the population that can't afford the resources or education.
- mhurron 11y ago
  > That's like saying, if a kid doesn't want to eat his vegetables or go to school, he shouldn't have to, right? It's nothing like that, unless you belive society should act like, and have the same powers as, your parents.
  - roymurdock 11y ago
    That is in fact the role society should (and does) play in cases where biological parents fail to provide their children with certain basics, such as nutrition and education.
    - mhurron 11y ago
      Really? You belive that society should be able to force adults to eat healthy? Because that is actually what we're talking about, adults, not children.
      - roymurdock 11y ago
        My argument was based explicitly on the premise that we were discussing computer/internet education and literacy, which is something that many children do not grow up with or have access to. To your other point: Not force, but encourage. I sure as hell don't want to pay the higher taxes needed for a medical system to take care of growing levels of obesity and the expensive procedures that are required for individuals whose health problems are directly correlated to poor nutritional choices. It's any persons's choice whether or not to eat healthy, but I would argue that a truly mature individual would recognize his/her decision's impact on the greater society that he/she is a part of, and take social welfare into account when making a decision. This prescience, not age, is what truly separates a child from an adult.
vlunkr 11y ago
That was my thought as I read this as well. Despite the title, the article really never said why I should care that they don't use the Internet.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> If they don't want to use the internet, they don't have to, right? Sure. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about the social factors that result in them choosing not, and the social impacts that that choice has. > The benefits and cost of internet use are concentrated on the individual There certainly are private costs and benefits; an underlying premise of the article -- which, to be fair, it seems to mostly assume rather than support, despite the fact that the support for that would be the answer to the question posed in the headline -- is that there are also social costs and benefits, and that they are important. > so I'm not sure that we should expend a lot of effort to force them to "join" the internet if they don't want it. None of the efforts discussed in the article, or its linked articles, is about efforts to force anyone to join the internet. So, while I'm sure most would agree with you, you seem to be beating a strawman.
- savanaly 11y ago
  You're right that I was off the mark when I talked about forcing them to "join" the internet-- whoops

bryanlarsen 11y ago

That's the big question. How many services are only accessible via the internet? The government does a good job of trying to ensure 100% coverage, but private businesses certainly don't. For instance, can you apply for a job at McDonald's without an email address?

striking 11y ago
Yes, you can. http://i.imgur.com/JpbjPCX.png http://i.imgur.com/JpbjPCX.png Try clicking Crew Position here and then Submitting the autofilled code. You see the above image. https://www.mylocalmcds.com/3534mcdonalds/employment/#hiring-now https://www.mylocalmcds.com/3534mcdonalds/employment/#hiring...

roymurdock 11y ago

That's like saying, if a kid doesn't want to eat his vegetables or go to school, he shouldn't have to, right? Many people don't have the opportunity to learn how to use a computer. But having basic computer skills is a prerequisite to most entry-level, non-service jobs, and is becoming an increasingly important part of our social fabric. I would agree with your statement as it applies to people who know about/how to use the internet, and simply don't care. But not for the portion of the population that can't afford the resources or education.

mhurron 11y ago
> That's like saying, if a kid doesn't want to eat his vegetables or go to school, he shouldn't have to, right? It's nothing like that, unless you belive society should act like, and have the same powers as, your parents.
- roymurdock 11y ago
  That is in fact the role society should (and does) play in cases where biological parents fail to provide their children with certain basics, such as nutrition and education.
  - mhurron 11y ago
    Really? You belive that society should be able to force adults to eat healthy? Because that is actually what we're talking about, adults, not children.
    - roymurdock 11y ago
      My argument was based explicitly on the premise that we were discussing computer/internet education and literacy, which is something that many children do not grow up with or have access to. To your other point: Not force, but encourage. I sure as hell don't want to pay the higher taxes needed for a medical system to take care of growing levels of obesity and the expensive procedures that are required for individuals whose health problems are directly correlated to poor nutritional choices. It's any persons's choice whether or not to eat healthy, but I would argue that a truly mature individual would recognize his/her decision's impact on the greater society that he/she is a part of, and take social welfare into account when making a decision. This prescience, not age, is what truly separates a child from an adult.

vlunkr 11y ago

That was my thought as I read this as well. Despite the title, the article really never said why I should care that they don't use the Internet.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> If they don't want to use the internet, they don't have to, right? Sure. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about the social factors that result in them choosing not, and the social impacts that that choice has. > The benefits and cost of internet use are concentrated on the individual There certainly are private costs and benefits; an underlying premise of the article -- which, to be fair, it seems to mostly assume rather than support, despite the fact that the support for that would be the answer to the question posed in the headline -- is that there are also social costs and benefits, and that they are important. > so I'm not sure that we should expend a lot of effort to force them to "join" the internet if they don't want it. None of the efforts discussed in the article, or its linked articles, is about efforts to force anyone to join the internet. So, while I'm sure most would agree with you, you seem to be beating a strawman.

savanaly 11y ago
You're right that I was off the mark when I talked about forcing them to "join" the internet-- whoops