5 ms·

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've never been to a 3rd world country for an extended period of time. If I'm wrong I'd like to apologize for maki

by bargl 11y ago

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've never been to a 3rd world country for an extended period of time. If I'm wrong I'd like to apologize for making this assumption to make the rest of my point, because you can easily step on the way back machine by moving someplace where only a few people have computers. During my time in Bolivia and Haiti I experience massive culture shock at the way people interact with their community. At night you can walk around the central plaza in the Okinawa Numero Uno (mind you this is a TINY town) and someone will find you to chat with you. In bigger towns (in Bolivia) people are friendly, because they have to interact to get directions, ask for a good place to eat, or just chat. There are community events ALL the time. Was it a golden age? No, I don't think so, but it was a time and culture where people KNEW their neighbors because if you want to stave off boredom you have to hang out with them to laugh, eat, drink, etc. I don't think technology has changed this per se, but instead that TV and the culture of entertainment that we have has changed this. I know that comparing the USA 30-50 years ago and Bolivia is an oversimplification, but there definitely was a culture difference before everyone had a cellphone in their pocket. It may not have been a golden age, but for some people it was a period where the risks were easier to understand. That said, I also think people were still able to find isolation who wanted it, the main difference is people who were seeking a way to fight boredom had much fewer ways to do that in their house by themselves 50 years ago.

Kalium 11y ago
The difference you are describing is societies where physical mobility is possible and the norm versus societies where it is not. Places where it's possible to know all the people around you and places where it isn't. Places where actual cities exist versus places where they don't. There are parts of the US like those you describe. I've lived in some of them. People KNOW their neighbors. Very intensely. It's very rare to have a neighbor that you haven't known for at least a decade. They still have TV, a culture of entertainment, Facebook, and iPhones. There's a constant sense of community, and an apparently endless stream of events. And you know what? I can't stand life in those places. I found them incredibly insular. Stifling. Conformity-enforcing. It's not something I found to be beautiful, uplifting, or pleasant. They are not a thing I wish to encourage or would call a desirable model. Did you notice that the things I cited - newspapers, books, knitting, and whittling - are all at least several centuries old? That was not an accident.
- bargl 11y ago
  The difference is that the forms of entertainment you list are things you learn to do. You must be taught. Tv, music, audiobooks and some other new forms of entertainment don't require thought. They are shoved at you. They may provoke thought but don't require it. Then you add other advances on top of that, the internet, the avialbility of cars, planes, cellphone, etc. It changes society. To argue that these things haven't changed society and that the older generation hasn't lived through it is ridiculous. Is it better? That's an opinion, and the older generation may think so. My dad LOVES working on old cars, but hates working with electronics (i.e. new cars)... Does he miss the "golden age". Heck yeah, but does he also love watching TV at night, heck yeah. >And you know what? I can't stand life in those places. I found them incredibly insular. Stifling. Conformity-enforcing. It's not something I found to be beautiful, uplifting, or pleasant. They are not a thing I wish to encourage or would call a desirable model. Again totally an opinion, but society has changed even there with the advent of the car/tv/internet/cellphone. These are things that expand our world, but shrink where we feel comfortable (I.E. I feel more comfortable driving an hour to see my friend then hanging out with my neighbor). Some people have adapted to the "new world" very well and others would prefer to reminisce about the golden age. I'd like to take the best of both worlds, which is why I'm working to get to know my neighbors better, but also to enjoy the community I've found here on that interwebs thingy.
  - Kalium 11y ago
    I think the core difference is that you think ideal a society where people are continually coerced into unwanted social interaction is ideal. I think it dystopian. I much, much prefer a society where i get a choice.
    - bargl 11y ago
      I don't think unwated social interaction is ideal, I want that interaction and I want the people I'm interacting with to want it too.... I get your point though, if you feel like you don't want that type of face to face interaction then it would seem like hell (See the TV show Ascension for what I'm talking about). It reminds me of a quote from vince vaughn. http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0396269/quotes?qt=qt0329774 http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0396269/quotes?qt=qt0329774 see " I apologize to you if I don't seem real eager to jump into a forced awkward intimate situation that people like to call dating." I know light humor is frowned upon in HN but when I thought of it for this situation it made me laugh a little I hope you get a giggle out of it :-)
digi_owl 11y ago
I find myself reminded of a personal experience from the "early" days of the net. Back then it was dialup that was the thing, and IRC was the main communications system. This resulted in local and regional channels popping up on various networks. But then came IM, in particular with MS bundling MSN Messenger with Windows. Over a year or so i watched the IRC channel dwindle as people moved to using IM. And some kind of spark was lost in that process.
terravion 11y ago
And yet, despite that increase in face to face interaction--Bolivians love Facebook in a way that few communities in the US would understand. The world is really shrinking when for 1 Boliviano (paid to the owner of the packed to the gills internet cafe) people can chat in real time for an hour from the heart of the Amazonian jungle with New York, London, or Singapore.

by bargl 11y ago

Kalium 11y ago

The difference you are describing is societies where physical mobility is possible and the norm versus societies where it is not. Places where it's possible to know all the people around you and places where it isn't. Places where actual cities exist versus places where they don't. There are parts of the US like those you describe. I've lived in some of them. People KNOW their neighbors. Very intensely. It's very rare to have a neighbor that you haven't known for at least a decade. They still have TV, a culture of entertainment, Facebook, and iPhones. There's a constant sense of community, and an apparently endless stream of events. And you know what? I can't stand life in those places. I found them incredibly insular. Stifling. Conformity-enforcing. It's not something I found to be beautiful, uplifting, or pleasant. They are not a thing I wish to encourage or would call a desirable model. Did you notice that the things I cited - newspapers, books, knitting, and whittling - are all at least several centuries old? That was not an accident.

bargl 11y ago
The difference is that the forms of entertainment you list are things you learn to do. You must be taught. Tv, music, audiobooks and some other new forms of entertainment don't require thought. They are shoved at you. They may provoke thought but don't require it. Then you add other advances on top of that, the internet, the avialbility of cars, planes, cellphone, etc. It changes society. To argue that these things haven't changed society and that the older generation hasn't lived through it is ridiculous. Is it better? That's an opinion, and the older generation may think so. My dad LOVES working on old cars, but hates working with electronics (i.e. new cars)... Does he miss the "golden age". Heck yeah, but does he also love watching TV at night, heck yeah. >And you know what? I can't stand life in those places. I found them incredibly insular. Stifling. Conformity-enforcing. It's not something I found to be beautiful, uplifting, or pleasant. They are not a thing I wish to encourage or would call a desirable model. Again totally an opinion, but society has changed even there with the advent of the car/tv/internet/cellphone. These are things that expand our world, but shrink where we feel comfortable (I.E. I feel more comfortable driving an hour to see my friend then hanging out with my neighbor). Some people have adapted to the "new world" very well and others would prefer to reminisce about the golden age. I'd like to take the best of both worlds, which is why I'm working to get to know my neighbors better, but also to enjoy the community I've found here on that interwebs thingy.
- Kalium 11y ago
  I think the core difference is that you think ideal a society where people are continually coerced into unwanted social interaction is ideal. I think it dystopian. I much, much prefer a society where i get a choice.
  - bargl 11y ago
    I don't think unwated social interaction is ideal, I want that interaction and I want the people I'm interacting with to want it too.... I get your point though, if you feel like you don't want that type of face to face interaction then it would seem like hell (See the TV show Ascension for what I'm talking about). It reminds me of a quote from vince vaughn. http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0396269/quotes?qt=qt0329774 http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0396269/quotes?qt=qt0329774 see " I apologize to you if I don't seem real eager to jump into a forced awkward intimate situation that people like to call dating." I know light humor is frowned upon in HN but when I thought of it for this situation it made me laugh a little I hope you get a giggle out of it :-)

digi_owl 11y ago

I find myself reminded of a personal experience from the "early" days of the net. Back then it was dialup that was the thing, and IRC was the main communications system. This resulted in local and regional channels popping up on various networks. But then came IM, in particular with MS bundling MSN Messenger with Windows. Over a year or so i watched the IRC channel dwindle as people moved to using IM. And some kind of spark was lost in that process.

terravion 11y ago

And yet, despite that increase in face to face interaction--Bolivians love Facebook in a way that few communities in the US would understand. The world is really shrinking when for 1 Boliviano (paid to the owner of the packed to the gills internet cafe) people can chat in real time for an hour from the heart of the Amazonian jungle with New York, London, or Singapore.