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What's going on at Github is rather perverse. And it happens to be around the word "Meritocracy". Because of the "feels", the word meritocracy is a 'disempower

by kefka 11y ago

What's going on at Github is rather perverse. And it happens to be around the word "Meritocracy". Because of the "feels", the word meritocracy is a 'disempowering word'. It makes people with less skill feel 'less valuable'. So the impetus is to raise your skill? No. It's to devalue others who call you on it, or disregard your uninformed opinion. What this accumulates to is the Github rug in the headquarters. "The United Meritocracy Of GitHub". As quoted, "GitHub's Julie Ann Horvath, a designer who also founded the company's all-female lecture series Passion Projects, said the rug first became a problem when photos of it made their way into feminist discussions online. The tech industry isn’t still predominantly white and male because white men are better at their jobs than everyone else, it’s because many white men have had more opportunities to succeed than their minority and female counterparts." Yep. Because of patriarchy, meritocracy really isn't. Oh, and throw in a bash to Paul Graham. Because 'patriarchy'. And of course, there are also allegations that the Feminist Hackerspace DoubleUnion denied a GH employee because of the rug. Some equality, huh? So, the same cancer that hit Reddit (free speech -> 'safe space') is coming to other companies, unsurprisingly. And we have feminism to blame.

kefka 11y ago
Source: http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug Because mobile.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Thank you for providing this link. Even though the rug story happened last year (somehow I missed it), it is relevant to this thread (and a scary read). Taken together (the attempt at censorship and the rug story) indicates to me that Github seems to be overly preoccupied with political correctness and not keeping their eyes on the ball. If this continues, watch for decreased quality/innovation coming from them as we go.
shkkmo 11y ago
Feminism is not to blame. Feminism is wonderful and empowering ideology. There is a distinct difference between the ideology of feminism and the behavior of a specific group of feminists. Lumping the two together like that is like blaming Islam for terrorists.
- kefka 11y ago
  Feminism, by its very name, is a sexist philosophy. And according to feminists, sexism (mainly patriarchy) is bad. Unless it's feminism. Feminism -> Feminine -> Female Definition of -ism: a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement.
  - shkkmo 11y ago
    > Feminism, by its very name, is a sexist philosophy. And according to feminists, sexism (mainly patriarchy) is bad. Unless it's feminism. That seems to imply that you don't think sexism is bad. Did you mean to imply that? Feminism, is by definition, anti-sexist. There are sexists who claim to be feminists, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word. While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine', it refers to an umbrella of ideologies that includes many advocates of equal rights for men as well as for women. However, if you do believe in the value of sexism, I can definitely understand why you would dislike feminism.
    - kefka 11y ago
      > Feminism, is by definition, anti-sexist. Really now. Sexism in all of its forms is bad. That includes feminism AND masculinism. > While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine', it refers to an umbrella of ideologies that includes many advocates of equal rights for men as well as for women. Citation needed for italicized text.
      - shkkmo 11y ago
        > Really now. Many (most?) definitions of feminism are along the lines of "supporting equal rights for men and women" or "equality between the sexes". Feminism is an umbrella term for a group of ideologies, some of who do not agree with either of those definitions. In that sense my statement is not accurate. However it is still far more accurate that your attempt to use the latin root of the word to define its meaning while ignoring its use and history. > Citation needed for italicized text Here's one: I am a feminist and I support equal rights for men as well women. Here's another one to an established feminist thinker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-hooks-6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-hooks-6
smrtinsert 11y ago
So when you have a request to the remove the word "retard" from a repo, and that request is complied with, feminism is to blame. Got it!
- kefka 11y ago
  Because in the case of GitHub censorship, it really is feminism and social justice warrior garbage. But I might be a white (-3 points) guy (-2 points) so you have to balance that in with the cited facts about the rug. I think it's pretty clear.
  - pekk 11y ago
    I think Github is itself mostly white guys. Also, most of the people being labeled SJWs on the relevant Github issue are white guys. So this isn't about whether you are a white guy or being defensive about being a white guy.
    - kefka 11y ago
      > I think Github is itself mostly white guys. Why should race or sex even be a part of the equation of "Hire or Not?" But don't worry. Github hired a bunch of women for their women-only area, Passion Projects. They only hire women, so it's a "Safe Space". ... and it appeases the feminists so that we don't have to hold to high standards of programming. They do the frilly 'social media' productions because you know "women are good at social". Edit: And that's the problem with specialized woman-only hiring procedures. They look good from a PR aspect as well as an appeasement angle, but the message they deliver is "Women aren't as good as men, so we have 'special' programs for them."
  - kunai 11y ago
    I never thought I'd see the day when HN's tide of hatred would turn from government surveillance towards the social justice boogeymen of Redditdom. You're arguing that feminism and "social justice warrior garbage" are the direct causes of Github censoring repos. It's not. If Github was pressured by people on Tumblr to use a regex to change the word, it would be a different story. They have good intentions, but the way they chose to implement it is completely unacceptable. You cannot censor the internet. This furor wouldn't really have occurred if they'd just sent the sap an email politely asking them to replace the word with something more sensitive.
pekk 11y ago
This isn't the real problem. Github's earlier obsession with the word "meritocracy" isn't even relevant. Horvath isn't relevant here either. Feminism isn't relevant here. Paul Graham isn't relevant here. Reddit isn't relevant here. You're all over the place with stuff that isn't relevant. The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 so that it's not just harassment or even seriously offensive content anymore, it's repos with words for "dumb" or "stupid" in the code that are getting ultimatums. This is not really different from banning repos for taking the Lord's name in vain, or writing offensive words like fuck and shit. So Github has become an unsafe space for average programmers, who sometimes cuss or call something stupid or even take the Lord's name in vain. And that is no good, because Github's whole purpose is to host code for people. That's important and should be addressed. But you are only screwing us over by associating us with GamerGate, anti-feminism and all that crap.
- Nadya 11y ago
  >The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 Stop here. Ask yourself "Why is GitHub dialing up to 11?" Answer: A group known for being responsible for over-zealous political correctness and internet-mobbing is being over-zealous about their political correctness and internet-mobbing. GitHub's answer to over-zealous politically correct internet mob? Cave in to their demands so they go away. "Turn it up to 11". Do you blame GitHub for being pressured the internet mob - or do you blame the internet mob for pressuring GitHub? A certain over-zealous politically correct internet mob made GitHub get rid of the word "meritocracy". A certain over-zealous politically correct internet mob was also responsible for the other things mentioned including the issues at Reddit. All of this stuff is related to the over-zealous politically correct internet mob. The problem isn't with GitHub. It's with the over-zealous politically correct internet mob pressuring GitHub. In short: Quit victim blaming.
- kefka 11y ago
  > The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 so that it's not just harassment or even seriously offensive content anymore, it's repos with words for "dumb" or "stupid" in the code that are getting ultimatums. And that's the effect in "cause and effect". The cause is feminism's creep into the boardroom as a group to appease. And the policies are as inane as arguing that "meritocracy" is an evil male word. Meritocracy is also considered a 'micro-agression' by similar said feminists because it "makes them feel bad". So, youre right that the problem right now is Github content policing. Why? My comment explains it.

by kefka 11y ago

kefka 11y ago

Source: http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug Because mobile.

jazzyk 11y ago
Thank you for providing this link. Even though the rug story happened last year (somehow I missed it), it is relevant to this thread (and a scary read). Taken together (the attempt at censorship and the rug story) indicates to me that Github seems to be overly preoccupied with political correctness and not keeping their eyes on the ball. If this continues, watch for decreased quality/innovation coming from them as we go.

shkkmo 11y ago

Feminism is not to blame. Feminism is wonderful and empowering ideology. There is a distinct difference between the ideology of feminism and the behavior of a specific group of feminists. Lumping the two together like that is like blaming Islam for terrorists.

kefka 11y ago
Feminism, by its very name, is a sexist philosophy. And according to feminists, sexism (mainly patriarchy) is bad. Unless it's feminism. Feminism -> Feminine -> Female Definition of -ism: a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement.
- shkkmo 11y ago
  > Feminism, by its very name, is a sexist philosophy. And according to feminists, sexism (mainly patriarchy) is bad. Unless it's feminism. That seems to imply that you don't think sexism is bad. Did you mean to imply that? Feminism, is by definition, anti-sexist. There are sexists who claim to be feminists, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word. While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine', it refers to an umbrella of ideologies that includes many advocates of equal rights for men as well as for women. However, if you do believe in the value of sexism, I can definitely understand why you would dislike feminism.
  - kefka 11y ago
    > Feminism, is by definition, anti-sexist. Really now. Sexism in all of its forms is bad. That includes feminism AND masculinism. > While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine', it refers to an umbrella of ideologies that includes many advocates of equal rights for men as well as for women. Citation needed for italicized text.
    - shkkmo 11y ago
      > Really now. Many (most?) definitions of feminism are along the lines of "supporting equal rights for men and women" or "equality between the sexes". Feminism is an umbrella term for a group of ideologies, some of who do not agree with either of those definitions. In that sense my statement is not accurate. However it is still far more accurate that your attempt to use the latin root of the word to define its meaning while ignoring its use and history. > Citation needed for italicized text Here's one: I am a feminist and I support equal rights for men as well women. Here's another one to an established feminist thinker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-hooks-6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-hooks-6

smrtinsert 11y ago

So when you have a request to the remove the word "retard" from a repo, and that request is complied with, feminism is to blame. Got it!

kefka 11y ago
Because in the case of GitHub censorship, it really is feminism and social justice warrior garbage. But I might be a white (-3 points) guy (-2 points) so you have to balance that in with the cited facts about the rug. I think it's pretty clear.
- pekk 11y ago
  I think Github is itself mostly white guys. Also, most of the people being labeled SJWs on the relevant Github issue are white guys. So this isn't about whether you are a white guy or being defensive about being a white guy.
  - kefka 11y ago
    > I think Github is itself mostly white guys. Why should race or sex even be a part of the equation of "Hire or Not?" But don't worry. Github hired a bunch of women for their women-only area, Passion Projects. They only hire women, so it's a "Safe Space". ... and it appeases the feminists so that we don't have to hold to high standards of programming. They do the frilly 'social media' productions because you know "women are good at social". Edit: And that's the problem with specialized woman-only hiring procedures. They look good from a PR aspect as well as an appeasement angle, but the message they deliver is "Women aren't as good as men, so we have 'special' programs for them."
- kunai 11y ago
  I never thought I'd see the day when HN's tide of hatred would turn from government surveillance towards the social justice boogeymen of Redditdom. You're arguing that feminism and "social justice warrior garbage" are the direct causes of Github censoring repos. It's not. If Github was pressured by people on Tumblr to use a regex to change the word, it would be a different story. They have good intentions, but the way they chose to implement it is completely unacceptable. You cannot censor the internet. This furor wouldn't really have occurred if they'd just sent the sap an email politely asking them to replace the word with something more sensitive.

pekk 11y ago

This isn't the real problem. Github's earlier obsession with the word "meritocracy" isn't even relevant. Horvath isn't relevant here either. Feminism isn't relevant here. Paul Graham isn't relevant here. Reddit isn't relevant here. You're all over the place with stuff that isn't relevant. The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 so that it's not just harassment or even seriously offensive content anymore, it's repos with words for "dumb" or "stupid" in the code that are getting ultimatums. This is not really different from banning repos for taking the Lord's name in vain, or writing offensive words like fuck and shit. So Github has become an unsafe space for average programmers, who sometimes cuss or call something stupid or even take the Lord's name in vain. And that is no good, because Github's whole purpose is to host code for people. That's important and should be addressed. But you are only screwing us over by associating us with GamerGate, anti-feminism and all that crap.

Nadya 11y ago
>The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 Stop here. Ask yourself "Why is GitHub dialing up to 11?" Answer: A group known for being responsible for over-zealous political correctness and internet-mobbing is being over-zealous about their political correctness and internet-mobbing. GitHub's answer to over-zealous politically correct internet mob? Cave in to their demands so they go away. "Turn it up to 11". Do you blame GitHub for being pressured the internet mob - or do you blame the internet mob for pressuring GitHub? A certain over-zealous politically correct internet mob made GitHub get rid of the word "meritocracy". A certain over-zealous politically correct internet mob was also responsible for the other things mentioned including the issues at Reddit. All of this stuff is related to the over-zealous politically correct internet mob. The problem isn't with GitHub. It's with the over-zealous politically correct internet mob pressuring GitHub. In short: Quit victim blaming.
kefka 11y ago
> The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 so that it's not just harassment or even seriously offensive content anymore, it's repos with words for "dumb" or "stupid" in the code that are getting ultimatums. And that's the effect in "cause and effect". The cause is feminism's creep into the boardroom as a group to appease. And the policies are as inane as arguing that "meritocracy" is an evil male word. Meritocracy is also considered a 'micro-agression' by similar said feminists because it "makes them feel bad". So, youre right that the problem right now is Github content policing. Why? My comment explains it.