3 ms·

This article [1] linked from the OP contains the following fact: the pro-TPP lobby spent $135 million in the second quarter of 2015. I mean, I know lobbying co

by lemming 11y ago

This article [1] linked from the OP contains the following fact: the pro-TPP lobby spent $135 million in the second quarter of 2015. I mean, I know lobbying costs money, but where can that much money possibly go? [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/23/us-trade-tpp-lobbying-idUSKCN0PX2JO20150723 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/23/us-trade-tpp-lobby...

ekianjo 11y ago
Let me guess... corruption?
- tptacek 11y ago
  We missed you, Markov activist.
tptacek 11y ago
Read the Reuters article carefully: that's all the money spent by all the members of the "US Business Coalition for TPP" on all lobbying, it's in the same order of magnitude as it was prior to TPP, and even the surge in spending now isn't all TPP. For instance, Boeing doubled their lobbying --- to lobby against the proposed elimination of the Export-Import Bank.
- lemming 11y ago
  Sure, but even if it's not all TPP related - that is a truckload of money. I have no idea what you even spend that amount of money on - it would buy a lot of champagne and hookers for representatives.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Not only is it not all TPP related, it is mostly not TPP related. They cited the aggregate lobbying of all the (gigantic) members of a trade coalition, and that statistic is misleading. The "champagne and hookers" snark is silly. Where do hundreds of millions of dollars in lobbying fees go? Approximately the same place as the hundreds of millions of dollars of donations to giant institutional charities go: * Salaries for formal employees of the organization * Contractor fees for copywriting, advertising, event planning, legal * Giant advertising and promotional campaigns * Fundraising * Direct political donations * PAC donations Just replace "food banks" and "medical care" with "report writing" and you're close. Lobbying isn't a great thing, and it interacts very badly with PACs, but it certainly isn't millions of dollars in strippers. Mostly, it's a scam to skim money off the political process and into the pockets of lobbyists and their firms.
    - gighugvuhvb 11y ago
      Of course it goes to hookers and blow http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3174689/Lord-Snorty-Blair-crony-responsible-behaviour-peers-filmed-taking-cocaine-200-night-prostitute-s-breasts-romp-two-escorts-discounted-flat.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3174689/Lord-Snorty-... How ignorant of human nature can someone be?
    - snowwrestler 11y ago
      Slight correction: lobbying spending numbers do not include donations to candidates or PACs. Federal law prohibts organizations from giving money to either. Organizations can pay the expenses for a "captive" PAC (usually in the form of hosting it within their headquarters with all the costs that implies), but that spending is also excluded from reported lobbying numbers. Other than that, you are spot on. Once people realize that lobbying expenditures include salaries and media buys, it's not hard to see how the total gets into many millions of dollars.
  - bmelton 11y ago
    And you thought you didn't know where it went, you sly rascal you.
waspleg 11y ago
lobbying is synonymous with legalized bribery. Thanks for posting this story. I shared it on Stumbleupon (where apparently it hadn't been prior) along with the petition and signed it. I'm a card carrying EFF member but I don't read the site every day. The lengths they've gone to to hide this is proportional to how bad it will be for the general public.

by lemming 11y ago

ekianjo 11y ago

Let me guess... corruption?

tptacek 11y ago
We missed you, Markov activist.

tptacek 11y ago

Read the Reuters article carefully: that's all the money spent by all the members of the "US Business Coalition for TPP" on all lobbying, it's in the same order of magnitude as it was prior to TPP, and even the surge in spending now isn't all TPP. For instance, Boeing doubled their lobbying --- to lobby against the proposed elimination of the Export-Import Bank.

lemming 11y ago
Sure, but even if it's not all TPP related - that is a truckload of money. I have no idea what you even spend that amount of money on - it would buy a lot of champagne and hookers for representatives.
- tptacek 11y ago
  Not only is it not all TPP related, it is mostly not TPP related. They cited the aggregate lobbying of all the (gigantic) members of a trade coalition, and that statistic is misleading. The "champagne and hookers" snark is silly. Where do hundreds of millions of dollars in lobbying fees go? Approximately the same place as the hundreds of millions of dollars of donations to giant institutional charities go: * Salaries for formal employees of the organization * Contractor fees for copywriting, advertising, event planning, legal * Giant advertising and promotional campaigns * Fundraising * Direct political donations * PAC donations Just replace "food banks" and "medical care" with "report writing" and you're close. Lobbying isn't a great thing, and it interacts very badly with PACs, but it certainly isn't millions of dollars in strippers. Mostly, it's a scam to skim money off the political process and into the pockets of lobbyists and their firms.
  - gighugvuhvb 11y ago
    Of course it goes to hookers and blow http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3174689/Lord-Snorty-Blair-crony-responsible-behaviour-peers-filmed-taking-cocaine-200-night-prostitute-s-breasts-romp-two-escorts-discounted-flat.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3174689/Lord-Snorty-... How ignorant of human nature can someone be?
  - snowwrestler 11y ago
    Slight correction: lobbying spending numbers do not include donations to candidates or PACs. Federal law prohibts organizations from giving money to either. Organizations can pay the expenses for a "captive" PAC (usually in the form of hosting it within their headquarters with all the costs that implies), but that spending is also excluded from reported lobbying numbers. Other than that, you are spot on. Once people realize that lobbying expenditures include salaries and media buys, it's not hard to see how the total gets into many millions of dollars.
- bmelton 11y ago
  And you thought you didn't know where it went, you sly rascal you.

waspleg 11y ago

lobbying is synonymous with legalized bribery. Thanks for posting this story. I shared it on Stumbleupon (where apparently it hadn't been prior) along with the petition and signed it. I'm a card carrying EFF member but I don't read the site every day. The lengths they've gone to to hide this is proportional to how bad it will be for the general public.