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Maybe it's because developers don't run companies in general. For management cost and control would be more important considerations. I know of a local software

Maybe it's because developers don't run companies in general. For management cost and control would be more important considerations. I know of a local software company that's owned by 2 developers where they have individual offices. While 37 Signals kind of have an open office, it's meant to be as quiet as a library to avoid disruptions. People who manage probably don't need to concentrate as much as the people who create the stuff. I suppose my point is that people at the top call the shots, not the people at the bottom.

amirmc 11y ago
That comment is just a way of saying 'they' are not like 'me' (but trying to make it sound general). Facebook, led by a (former) dev, has gone all-in on open plan offices - which is a direct counterpoint. That people at the top call the shots is tautological. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinkruse/2012/08/25/facebook-unveils-new-campus-will-workers-be-sick-stressed-and-dissatisfied/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinkruse/2012/08/25/facebook-u...
- frostmatthew 11y ago
  > Facebook, led by a (former) dev, has gone all-in on open plan offices As another comment[1] pointed out it may have been founded by a developer, but it was one who never worked anywhere other than the company he founded and grew. Things that work well for a company of ten or twenty don't necessarily work best when it grows into the hundreds or thousands of employees. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9968367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9968367
  - amirmc 11y ago
    My point was to refute the assertion that it's "because developers don't run companies in general." If we're going to add lots of caveats to what 'developer' means, then we're essentially making a 'No true scotsman argument' -- (i.e. Zuck hasn't worked anywhere else, and is ostensibly a manager now).
    - frostmatthew 11y ago
      Oh sorry, I certainly didn't mean to suggest he isn't a "true" developer - I'm sure he could code circles around me. I meant only that you were pointing to Facebook as a "direct counterpoint" to the suggestion that "developers don't run companies in general" - and it's not a great counterpoint because he's not going into the office every day and writing code, and hasn't since Facebook was a small/early-stage startup (where open layouts make the most sense). i.e. he isn't making the decision as a developer, he's making it as a manager and the comment you were originally replying to was suggesting "for management cost and control would be more important considerations." [Though I'm not sure I entirely agree with that, as pointed out in my own reply to that comment]
frostmatthew 11y ago
> People who manage probably don't need to concentrate as much as the people who create the stuff. That may be true but it's probably more of a case of the difference between the "Maker's Schedule" and the "Manager's Schedule"[1] - i.e. managers probably don't realize how much distractions or interruptions are bad for "maker's" productivity because a manager's day is mostly distractions or interruptions. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html

amirmc 11y ago

That comment is just a way of saying 'they' are not like 'me' (but trying to make it sound general). Facebook, led by a (former) dev, has gone all-in on open plan offices - which is a direct counterpoint. That people at the top call the shots is tautological. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinkruse/2012/08/25/facebook-unveils-new-campus-will-workers-be-sick-stressed-and-dissatisfied/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinkruse/2012/08/25/facebook-u...

frostmatthew 11y ago
> Facebook, led by a (former) dev, has gone all-in on open plan offices As another comment[1] pointed out it may have been founded by a developer, but it was one who never worked anywhere other than the company he founded and grew. Things that work well for a company of ten or twenty don't necessarily work best when it grows into the hundreds or thousands of employees. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9968367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9968367
- amirmc 11y ago
  My point was to refute the assertion that it's "because developers don't run companies in general." If we're going to add lots of caveats to what 'developer' means, then we're essentially making a 'No true scotsman argument' -- (i.e. Zuck hasn't worked anywhere else, and is ostensibly a manager now).
  - frostmatthew 11y ago
    Oh sorry, I certainly didn't mean to suggest he isn't a "true" developer - I'm sure he could code circles around me. I meant only that you were pointing to Facebook as a "direct counterpoint" to the suggestion that "developers don't run companies in general" - and it's not a great counterpoint because he's not going into the office every day and writing code, and hasn't since Facebook was a small/early-stage startup (where open layouts make the most sense). i.e. he isn't making the decision as a developer, he's making it as a manager and the comment you were originally replying to was suggesting "for management cost and control would be more important considerations." [Though I'm not sure I entirely agree with that, as pointed out in my own reply to that comment]

frostmatthew 11y ago

> People who manage probably don't need to concentrate as much as the people who create the stuff. That may be true but it's probably more of a case of the difference between the "Maker's Schedule" and the "Manager's Schedule"[1] - i.e. managers probably don't realize how much distractions or interruptions are bad for "maker's" productivity because a manager's day is mostly distractions or interruptions. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html