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Real identities have been core to the Facebook experience since the day it launched; just as fake usernames have been core to YouTube since its launch. For eith

by zaidf 11y ago

Real identities have been core to the Facebook experience since the day it launched; just as fake usernames have been core to YouTube since its launch. For either to go back on a core part of who they are would be a mistake. Facebook would be making the same mistake as Google if it did allow pseudonyms.

DanBC 11y ago
Should Facebook not allow "Robert Galbraith" (JK Rowling) to have a page? How about "JK Rowling" (Joanne Rowling)? Should she be forced to use her full forename? In England you can use whatever name you like, as long as you don't have the intent to deceive. (This is tricky with doctors and banks). So, legally, I could be "Bob Smith" and "Ann Jones" at the same time. Why does Facebook get to tell me that I only have one name when my government is fine with me having multiple names?
- zaidf 11y ago
  Why does Facebook get to tell me that I only have one name when my government is fine with me having multiple names? Because Facebook isn't your government. It is a non-government entity with a very specific vision. If it finds that the use of fake names hinders the experience of other users and there by Facebook Corp., it should be allowed to require real names.
  - Symbiote 11y ago
    If it finds that allowing black people to use the service hinders the experience of other users, should it be allowed to block them?
    - CHY872 11y ago
      At the moment it is illegal for them to do such a thing (at least in the US) for black people are a protected group (civil rights act etc). Other than for a small number of reasons due to protected groups, businesses generally have the right to refuse business to anyone for any reason. Do I think Facebook should be allowed to block black people? No. Do I think Facebook should be allowed to block pseudonyms? Yes.
    - dylanjermiah 11y ago
      Why would that ever be the case?
- florian-f 11y ago
  Is there a British version of the [Lichtbildausweis](https://shop.digitalcourage.de/lng/en/thema/ak-data-retension/lichtbildausweis-mit-selbst-gewaehlten-daten.html?type=N&language=en https://shop.digitalcourage.de/lng/en/thema/ak-data-retensio...)? It's a custom 'official' looking ID that is sold by an NGO that promotes privacy among other things.
  - Symbiote 11y ago
    No, but probably because there's no official identity card in Britain. I've never tried to use a false name, but it probably would be easy for many things (utilities, local government) but difficult for others (bank account).
    - juliangregorian 11y ago
      Not even a driver's license?
      - jameshart 11y ago
        Driver's licenses, passports, utility bills, bank cards, all are considered 'forms of ID' in the UK, which you might need to use to open a bank account or get credit, but there's no 'ID card'; there's no obligation to have a driving license, or a passport, or whatever.
        juliangregorian 11y ago
        That much is true in the US as well.
darklajid 11y ago
I'm confused. You replied to someone that stated quite clearly that a lot of German users already do what you consider a mistake. I don't have a FB account for quite some time now, but yes: Every contact (right - let's be honest: 80% of my contacts or more) obscured their name. Some just changed a little thing, like using a handle instead of the first name. Others did the ~useless~ reverse-the-last-name thing. Some people mashed up their names by - for example - translating parts of it to English (name contains 'rot', translate to 'red'). And quite a number of people just used insane (if you're German, and not the clever/good insane) puns/references/crap as name. The real name policy is already a failure. Not trying to enforce it, or - more correctly - not being allowed to enforce it, is a step forward.
- the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
  > You replied to someone that stated quite clearly that a lot of German users already do what you consider a mistake. And it's very annoying for everybody else. It defeats the entire purpose of Facebook when I can't find my friends.
  - darklajid 11y ago
    Here's the thing: That's your loss. If _your_ friends don't pick their real name, take it up with your friends? What kind of attitude is that, really? "I cannot find my friends if everyone can pick their name on this platform, hence this is very annoying". What? We're talking friends here. Ask them: "Hey, are you on Facebook?" (reasonable question in my social circles, implying a yes is baaad) and follow up with "What's your name/can you add me as a friend?". Solved. They're your friends, after all.
    - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
      > If _your_ friends don't pick their real name, take it up with your friends? What kind of attitude is that, really? Why should I force my friends to do something they do not want?
  - raverbashing 11y ago
rwmj 11y ago
My (two) FB accounts both use a fake name -- I mean, a completely, obviously fake name that no one would think was real. It's never been a problem for me.
- jbrooksuk 11y ago
  For what reason? I'm curious as to why people do this.
  - rwmj 11y ago
    It's not my expectation that I should reveal my name just to kick back and chat to friends, and that wasn't required on any previous social websites. Nor if I go to the pub or if we sit in the park -- to name two other social venues, one commercial, one public domain. When I'm on HN I'm building up a professional reputation, so I use my real name (or at least an easily searchable abbreviation of it) here.
shkkmo 11y ago
Most people I have met recently while traveling (including one from Germany) who I have added on Facebook use their real first name and a fake last name. Why would it be a mistake since it is a pretty common use pattern despite the rules Facebook tries to impose?
- zaidf 11y ago
  Because "pretty common use pattern" should not be the bar for what is allowed on facebook. To give you another example: in India, it is very common to use a picture of your favorite Bollywood actor as your profile picture on social media. Should this be permitted by facebook just because it is a common pattern in India? In my opinion it shouldn't be permitted because it hurts the core of facebook: people using real identities to connect with one another. I can also flip your argument and say that why do people who use fake names want to impose themselves on Facebook? They could just as well abide by Facebook's guidelines or just not use it.

by zaidf 11y ago

DanBC 11y ago

Should Facebook not allow "Robert Galbraith" (JK Rowling) to have a page? How about "JK Rowling" (Joanne Rowling)? Should she be forced to use her full forename? In England you can use whatever name you like, as long as you don't have the intent to deceive. (This is tricky with doctors and banks). So, legally, I could be "Bob Smith" and "Ann Jones" at the same time. Why does Facebook get to tell me that I only have one name when my government is fine with me having multiple names?

zaidf 11y ago
Why does Facebook get to tell me that I only have one name when my government is fine with me having multiple names? Because Facebook isn't your government. It is a non-government entity with a very specific vision. If it finds that the use of fake names hinders the experience of other users and there by Facebook Corp., it should be allowed to require real names.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  If it finds that allowing black people to use the service hinders the experience of other users, should it be allowed to block them?
  - CHY872 11y ago
    At the moment it is illegal for them to do such a thing (at least in the US) for black people are a protected group (civil rights act etc). Other than for a small number of reasons due to protected groups, businesses generally have the right to refuse business to anyone for any reason. Do I think Facebook should be allowed to block black people? No. Do I think Facebook should be allowed to block pseudonyms? Yes.
  - dylanjermiah 11y ago
    Why would that ever be the case?
florian-f 11y ago
Is there a British version of the [Lichtbildausweis](https://shop.digitalcourage.de/lng/en/thema/ak-data-retension/lichtbildausweis-mit-selbst-gewaehlten-daten.html?type=N&language=en https://shop.digitalcourage.de/lng/en/thema/ak-data-retensio...)? It's a custom 'official' looking ID that is sold by an NGO that promotes privacy among other things.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  No, but probably because there's no official identity card in Britain. I've never tried to use a false name, but it probably would be easy for many things (utilities, local government) but difficult for others (bank account).
  - juliangregorian 11y ago
    Not even a driver's license?
    - jameshart 11y ago
      Driver's licenses, passports, utility bills, bank cards, all are considered 'forms of ID' in the UK, which you might need to use to open a bank account or get credit, but there's no 'ID card'; there's no obligation to have a driving license, or a passport, or whatever.
      - juliangregorian 11y ago
        That much is true in the US as well.

darklajid 11y ago

I'm confused. You replied to someone that stated quite clearly that a lot of German users already do what you consider a mistake. I don't have a FB account for quite some time now, but yes: Every contact (right - let's be honest: 80% of my contacts or more) obscured their name. Some just changed a little thing, like using a handle instead of the first name. Others did the ~useless~ reverse-the-last-name thing. Some people mashed up their names by - for example - translating parts of it to English (name contains 'rot', translate to 'red'). And quite a number of people just used insane (if you're German, and not the clever/good insane) puns/references/crap as name. The real name policy is already a failure. Not trying to enforce it, or - more correctly - not being allowed to enforce it, is a step forward.

the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
> You replied to someone that stated quite clearly that a lot of German users already do what you consider a mistake. And it's very annoying for everybody else. It defeats the entire purpose of Facebook when I can't find my friends.
- darklajid 11y ago
  Here's the thing: That's your loss. If _your_ friends don't pick their real name, take it up with your friends? What kind of attitude is that, really? "I cannot find my friends if everyone can pick their name on this platform, hence this is very annoying". What? We're talking friends here. Ask them: "Hey, are you on Facebook?" (reasonable question in my social circles, implying a yes is baaad) and follow up with "What's your name/can you add me as a friend?". Solved. They're your friends, after all.
  - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
    > If _your_ friends don't pick their real name, take it up with your friends? What kind of attitude is that, really? Why should I force my friends to do something they do not want?
- raverbashing 11y ago

rwmj 11y ago

My (two) FB accounts both use a fake name -- I mean, a completely, obviously fake name that no one would think was real. It's never been a problem for me.

jbrooksuk 11y ago
For what reason? I'm curious as to why people do this.
- rwmj 11y ago
  It's not my expectation that I should reveal my name just to kick back and chat to friends, and that wasn't required on any previous social websites. Nor if I go to the pub or if we sit in the park -- to name two other social venues, one commercial, one public domain. When I'm on HN I'm building up a professional reputation, so I use my real name (or at least an easily searchable abbreviation of it) here.

shkkmo 11y ago

Most people I have met recently while traveling (including one from Germany) who I have added on Facebook use their real first name and a fake last name. Why would it be a mistake since it is a pretty common use pattern despite the rules Facebook tries to impose?

zaidf 11y ago
Because "pretty common use pattern" should not be the bar for what is allowed on facebook. To give you another example: in India, it is very common to use a picture of your favorite Bollywood actor as your profile picture on social media. Should this be permitted by facebook just because it is a common pattern in India? In my opinion it shouldn't be permitted because it hurts the core of facebook: people using real identities to connect with one another. I can also flip your argument and say that why do people who use fake names want to impose themselves on Facebook? They could just as well abide by Facebook's guidelines or just not use it.