7 ms·

You can use VLC. After your comment, I wasn't sure why that was the case. Apparently: > Neither French law nor European conventions recognize software as paten

by shocks 11y ago

You can use VLC. After your comment, I wasn't sure why that was the case. Apparently: > Neither French law nor European conventions recognize software as patentable (see French section below). Therefore, software patents licenses do not apply on VideoLAN software. From http://www.videolan.org/legal.html http://www.videolan.org/legal.html

acqq 11y ago
But see also this (on the same page) if you're using VLC in the US: "libdvdcss libdvdcss is a library that can find and guess keys from a DVD in order to decrypt it. This method is authorized by a French law decision CE 10e et 9e soussect., 16 juillet 2008, n° 301843 on interoperability. NB: In the USA, you should check out the US Copyright Office decision that allows circumvention in some cases."
- shocks 11y ago
  Ah interesting! I missed that.
noinsight 11y ago
That is actually illegal in Finland because it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection. Technically you need a licensed player. A few people have turned themselves in for watching a DVD on Linux and they received a token fine.
- shocks 11y ago
  How much is the fine?
  - noinsight 11y ago
    It's hard to find working links for old stuff (this was in ~2007), but... The law made "organized discussion" about breaking copy protection illegal so they also created a website with the title "organized discussion" and displayed code for breaking the protection and someone also paid 5 cents for it after which they turned themselves in :) Apparently the lower courts acquitted them but that was reversed and the supreme court didn't take the case. So the end result is that it's illegal but they didn't receive any penalties. Apparently the European court of human rights didn't accept the case either. http://mjr.iki.fi/eucd/ http://mjr.iki.fi/eucd/ (discussed here in Finnish) http://www.digitoday.fi/yhteiskunta/2008/05/26/dvdn-katselu-linux-koneessa-muuttui-rikolliseksi/200814212/66 http://www.digitoday.fi/yhteiskunta/2008/05/26/dvdn-katselu-... (news article about it)
    - shocks 11y ago
      Heh, nice. Thanks!
- airza 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection in the US, as well.
  - germanier 11y ago
    I'm no expert in US law but this US copyright office decision suggests that it's legal in some cases: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/ http://www.copyright.gov/1201/ The case here seems more related to the MPEG patents though.
    - airza 11y ago
      My brain went to DeCSS, which, weirdly, the DVD licensing company lost because enough people had (illegally?) published it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Copy_Control_Ass%27n,_Inc._v._Bunner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Copy_Control_Ass%27n,_Inc.... I think there was also the Sony jailbreaking guy who settled with Sony out of court.
- germanier 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure it isn't (anymore) in all cases or it would run afoul EU Directive 2001/29 (see also the ECJ Nintendo case of 2014).
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jbk 11y ago
  > That is actually illegal in Finland because it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection. How do you not circumvent the copy protection to read a DVD? (See my various talks about libdvdcss)
  - theandrewbailey 11y ago
    It's probably not circumvention if you're using a licensed reader/player.
jbk 11y ago
(disclaimer: I wrote that page :) ) Well, there are 2 legal parts that apply here: - DRM - software patents. Software patents for DVDs are almost all over (it's a 20 year old technology). And in Europe, we don't have valid software patents. On the DRM part, libdvdcss is not DeCSS, it's either finding the right key or brute-forcing to find the right key. In order to play a DVD, you need to "open" the DRM, else you cannot have playback. In the case of VLC+libdvdcss-bundle, it's usually fine in (sane) juridictions because it's a player, not violating the copyrights holders. On some other, it's illegal.
- Joeri 11y ago
  The underlying motivation of the encryption on DVD's goes beyond preventing piracy. It's about making sure you cannot skip past the ads at the start of the movie. They needed a mechanism to require all DVD players to respect the flags on a DVD that say "this cannot be skipped", and did that by pushing it into the 1996 WIPO treaty that you must have anti-circumvention laws that prohibit people from breaking the encryption on copyrighted materials without the permission of the rights holder. Only licensed players are decrypting with permission. VLC is not a licensed player, so VLC often runs afoul of such laws. Just because the patents expire doesn't make the anti-circumvention laws go away. Those laws only stop applying once the copyright on the DVD expires, in a century or so.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Well, those anti-circumvention laws, for example in Germany, only apply in some cases. For example, as soon as software is included on the CD, too, breaking the DRM becomes legal.
- throwawaykf05 11y ago
  > And in Europe, we don't have valid software patents. That is categorically untrue, and you should stop telling people that. In Europe, software is not patent-eligible "as such", but it is if it solves a technical problem. The only thing that eliminates is "business method" patents, which are just a subset of what people generally refer to as "software patents".

by shocks 11y ago

acqq 11y ago

But see also this (on the same page) if you're using VLC in the US: "libdvdcss libdvdcss is a library that can find and guess keys from a DVD in order to decrypt it. This method is authorized by a French law decision CE 10e et 9e soussect., 16 juillet 2008, n° 301843 on interoperability. NB: In the USA, you should check out the US Copyright Office decision that allows circumvention in some cases."

shocks 11y ago
Ah interesting! I missed that.

noinsight 11y ago

That is actually illegal in Finland because it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection. Technically you need a licensed player. A few people have turned themselves in for watching a DVD on Linux and they received a token fine.

shocks 11y ago
How much is the fine?
- noinsight 11y ago
  It's hard to find working links for old stuff (this was in ~2007), but... The law made "organized discussion" about breaking copy protection illegal so they also created a website with the title "organized discussion" and displayed code for breaking the protection and someone also paid 5 cents for it after which they turned themselves in :) Apparently the lower courts acquitted them but that was reversed and the supreme court didn't take the case. So the end result is that it's illegal but they didn't receive any penalties. Apparently the European court of human rights didn't accept the case either. http://mjr.iki.fi/eucd/ http://mjr.iki.fi/eucd/ (discussed here in Finnish) http://www.digitoday.fi/yhteiskunta/2008/05/26/dvdn-katselu-linux-koneessa-muuttui-rikolliseksi/200814212/66 http://www.digitoday.fi/yhteiskunta/2008/05/26/dvdn-katselu-... (news article about it)
  - shocks 11y ago
    Heh, nice. Thanks!
airza 11y ago
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection in the US, as well.
- germanier 11y ago
  I'm no expert in US law but this US copyright office decision suggests that it's legal in some cases: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/ http://www.copyright.gov/1201/ The case here seems more related to the MPEG patents though.
  - airza 11y ago
    My brain went to DeCSS, which, weirdly, the DVD licensing company lost because enough people had (illegally?) published it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Copy_Control_Ass%27n,_Inc._v._Bunner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Copy_Control_Ass%27n,_Inc.... I think there was also the Sony jailbreaking guy who settled with Sony out of court.
germanier 11y ago
I'm pretty sure it isn't (anymore) in all cases or it would run afoul EU Directive 2001/29 (see also the ECJ Nintendo case of 2014).
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jbk 11y ago
> That is actually illegal in Finland because it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection. How do you not circumvent the copy protection to read a DVD? (See my various talks about libdvdcss)
- theandrewbailey 11y ago
  It's probably not circumvention if you're using a licensed reader/player.

jbk 11y ago

(disclaimer: I wrote that page :) ) Well, there are 2 legal parts that apply here: - DRM - software patents. Software patents for DVDs are almost all over (it's a 20 year old technology). And in Europe, we don't have valid software patents. On the DRM part, libdvdcss is not DeCSS, it's either finding the right key or brute-forcing to find the right key. In order to play a DVD, you need to "open" the DRM, else you cannot have playback. In the case of VLC+libdvdcss-bundle, it's usually fine in (sane) juridictions because it's a player, not violating the copyrights holders. On some other, it's illegal.

Joeri 11y ago
The underlying motivation of the encryption on DVD's goes beyond preventing piracy. It's about making sure you cannot skip past the ads at the start of the movie. They needed a mechanism to require all DVD players to respect the flags on a DVD that say "this cannot be skipped", and did that by pushing it into the 1996 WIPO treaty that you must have anti-circumvention laws that prohibit people from breaking the encryption on copyrighted materials without the permission of the rights holder. Only licensed players are decrypting with permission. VLC is not a licensed player, so VLC often runs afoul of such laws. Just because the patents expire doesn't make the anti-circumvention laws go away. Those laws only stop applying once the copyright on the DVD expires, in a century or so.
- kuschku 11y ago
  Well, those anti-circumvention laws, for example in Germany, only apply in some cases. For example, as soon as software is included on the CD, too, breaking the DRM becomes legal.
throwawaykf05 11y ago
> And in Europe, we don't have valid software patents. That is categorically untrue, and you should stop telling people that. In Europe, software is not patent-eligible "as such", but it is if it solves a technical problem. The only thing that eliminates is "business method" patents, which are just a subset of what people generally refer to as "software patents".