11 ms·

How to smuggle $1K into North Korea

167 points by admp 11y ago

ck2 11y ago
So this article just detailed for north korea government how people are smuggling. Which means people are going to be found and killed. How is this a good idea? This is people's very lives. If even one person is executed over this, do the journalists just shrug and go browse amazon some more or wander around the mall? If you want to expose North Korea, expose the government, not the people desperately trying to survive. I love how we are freaking out about Iran, meanwhile North Korea makes Iran look like disneyland and actually HAS nuclear weapons AND missiles they can be attached to. The deep hypocrisy with only caring about Israel is thick and deadly.
- wiradikusuma 11y ago
  I think it (should) work both ways. By having it exposed (which I believe the NK govt know already), probably some sympathetic people smarter than me could come up with a better solution.
- kuyfiuyg 11y ago
  They already know. When they catch people, they have ways to make people tell them anything.
- cantrevealname 11y ago
  > So this article just detailed for north korea government how people are smuggling. Which means people are going to be found and killed. The article is generalities. Don't you think the government would already know all that? If the government had caught and interrogated even a single smuggler or a single person who'd received foreign goods, they'd know far more specific information than this article gave.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- venomsnake 11y ago
  The NK not only knows about that smuggling, but also probably takes cut of the profits from it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_39 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_39
cantrevealname 11y ago
One thing bothers me about the article. This guy Kevin is able to get elderly relatives to practice good opsec. They walk to distant locations to make and receive calls, presumably at predetermined times; they avoid mentioning real names and other personally identifiable information; they speak for a strict 100 seconds or less. Carefully trained people could do all this certainly, but how would you train an elderly relative you left in your backward homeland with all this trade-craft, especially since you can't train them face to face, but you're limited to brief phone calls? Perhaps the opsec has been exaggerated to make the article more thrilling, or the opsec is true but it's a professional smuggling ring not involving elderly relatives.
- pkkim 11y ago
  I'm not an expert, but I would suspect that life in North Korea is good training for being very careful with things like this.
  - S4M 11y ago
    Yep, I remember reading on another article posted on HN that North Korea's economy depends a lot on the black market, which means that North Koreans must be cunning in their every day lives to get the basic things they need.
  - Agathos 11y ago
    Yet another gratuitous cruelty: the killer [famine] targets the most innocent, the people who would never steal food, lie, cheat, break the law, or betray a friend. It was a phenomenon that the Italian writer Primo Levi identified after emerging from Auschwitz, when he wrote that he and his fellow survivors never wanted to see one another again after the war because they had all done something of which they were ashamed. As Mrs. Song would observe a decade later, when she thought back on all the people she knew who died during those years in Chongjin, it was the “simple and kindhearted people who did what they were told—they were the first to die.” -- Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea by Barbara Demick
- j_lev 11y ago
  You're not the only one that is bothered by the article. The thing that triggered my radar was that the entire thing read like fiction. If it looks like a duck,... The dictionary sounds like bullshit. North Korean and South Korean are completely different dialects, with different orthography and spelling. Bigger differences than different spellings in English. I can't see a dictionary like that being of any use to his family. There is no way sources can ever be checked, and that means anywhere from 0 to 100% of the article could be fabricated. (edit: an analogy to better describe the dubious usefulness of the dictionary, it would be like a native Greek using a French-English dictionary to learn English)
merraksh 11y ago
The stranger on the other line is usually a girl, a Joseonjok girl. The woman gives Kevin a South Korean bank account number, to which Joseph wires $1,000. Joseph was not mentioned before in the article. Is that another fake name for Kevin, that the author forgot to replace? I don't understand otherwise.
- yitchelle 11y ago
  From what I can comprehend of the article, Joseph is the name of the person that "wired" the money into the Sth Korean bank. I guess that this is another obfuscation layer for identity hiding.
- huac 11y ago
  Honestly sounds like a 'real name' for Kevin (it mentions his Christian faith, and Joseph is a 'better' Christian name than Kevin).
jonah 11y ago
Here's a piece from 2014 about sending propaganda to NK via balloon. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/we-hacked-north-korea-with-balloons-and-usb-drives/283106/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/we-...
jkot 11y ago
In my experience from communist Czechoslovakia, western stuff is not actually prohibited. It is illegal for peasants, but communist elite can enjoy all luxuries they can effort.
- enedil 11y ago
  Chechoslovakia was never actualy communist. Like in Poland, Eastern Germany and several other countries, it was socialist.
  - onion2k 11y ago
    Under the Ninth-of-May Constitution, the Czech government, that was controlled by the Communist Party, nationalised all industrial and commercial businesses that had more than 50 employees. That is communism - the means of production were owned and operated by the state.
  - ADRIANFR 11y ago
    The difference between socialism and communism was all in the "communist" propaganda. All east-european countries were "socialist" with the almost utopian goal of becoming "communist". It's a label that could be changed at anytime by the leaders. Technically, according to the doctrine, socialism was "everybody contributes based on ability, and receives based on the contribution", while communism was: "everybody contributes based on ability, and receives based on their needs", which was utopian. Western countries did not (want to) grasp the difference, so they just called the eastern block "communist".
    - msandford 11y ago
      Under those definitions, isn't most of "socialist Europe" not really socialist? I mean a lot of countries have got a safety net and welfare programs and all that which seemingly are standardized, not indexed to your previous income. So you pay in with taxes that are based on what you make (and thus you contribute based on ability). Or is the idea that you keep a portion of your pay after taxes the "receives based on contribution" portion?
NicoJuicy 11y ago
Since i once read that North Korea has a team of PR-people for online communities ( like Russia does), could HN check for the ip range of North Korea for possible propaganda here and indicate it? ( kinda interesting) If someone of HN read this, the ip range is : 175.45.176.0 – 175.45.179.255 & 210.52.109.0 – 210.52.109.255
- shocks 11y ago
  Russia do this too. I imagine they're smart enough to use VPNs or something.
- jmnicolas 11y ago
  You know what should interest you, is that YOUR country is astroturfing (and probably much more than NK). There's probably 99% chances that you will detect NK astroturfing (they're not natives), but how well can you detect astroturfing from your country ?
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    ~Easily. If they espouse opinions contrary to my own, they must be government shills.~ ~Oh, hang on. I accidentally left my foil hat on. Let me take that off.~ It only takes a slightly elevated level of awareness. Usually, just knowing that it is possible that a participant in the discussion could be a paid propagandist is enough to spot likely candidates. While you can never really know for sure, if you check their posting history, and they only seem to care about exactly one thing, that's a strong indicator of suspicion. On some of the message boards I frequented in the past, the general subject matter was such that it was extraordinarily easy to spot the cop whenever one showed up. They always did exactly the same thing, and it never worked even once. It usually went something like this. A: Hey guys, we should get together and *do* something. B: Sure. Tell us your plan and we'll tell you if we're in. A: [*describes an overtly criminal act, usually involving violence*] C: Go back to writing traffic tickets, undercover cop. D: Do you actually get paid to annoy us, or are you doing it on a volunteer basis? B: You should take a look at your bosses instead of spying on us. E: [*spouts unrelated crackpot claptrap*] (end of thread) On a more general forum, such as HN, with a much larger and more diverse audience, it is a bit more difficult to spot the paid propagandist. And the professionals have honed their skills in the past few years. They spend more time setting up for the payoff, building reputation and credibility, before using an identity for a mission-critical message. They almost certainly have voting rings set up on every site that uses voting. Anyway, any genuine NK astroturfers would probably be doing it from a non-NK IP block. They're just brainwashed by their cult-like government, not stupid. They ones trusted to access the Internet to further the interests of their leaders almost certainly have access to Chinese, Russian, and American IP addresses.
Lancey 11y ago
> Smuggling goods is highly punishable, and letting people pass through the North Korean border, rather than shooting them, could get the border guards killed instantly. This made me think the border guards have Running Man-esque bomb collars around their necks. I'm sure there's consequences, but compared to shooting smugglers I don't think their punishment would be that instant.
- omegaham 11y ago
  Summary execution is pretty expedient, especially if you don't care about the facts.
BuildTheRobots 11y ago
> Detection tools and systems to track down international phone calls made inside North Korea are becoming increasingly accurate and more widespread, so calls must be kept under two minutes. Could someone elaborate on this... keeping calls <2min to stop them being traced seems painfully Hollywood
- Vexs 11y ago
  No idea if this is right, but I imagine that's how long it takes to get the word out to start tracking this number, after which the actual tracking happens quickly.
- grecy 11y ago
  Speaking from a telco perspective, all of our switches make a CDR (call data record) for ALL calls in and out. Origin number, destination number, number of seconds, date stamp, etc. etc. There are millions of CDRs per day. It would be trivial to filter them for calls to/from certain ranges of numbers. EDIT: To be clear, it makes no difference if your call is one second or one hour, I can easily find the CDR for it and prove you made/received a call from/to X
  - goodcanadian 11y ago
    You are correct, of course, except that I highly doubt North Korea has access to Chinese telephone records. As another commenter pointed out, the North Koreans are probably relying on radio triangulation. With the right resources, I'm sure they could detect that a call is occurring almost immediately, and perhaps even pinpoint where it is coming from, but they still have to go out and catch them. I don't know what resources the North Koreans actually have, but I suspect they are fairly limited.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - leoc 11y ago
      There are reports that the DPRK government splashed out on mobile-phone radio detectors http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?num=12545&cataId=nk01500 http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?num=12545&cataId=nk0... http://renewal.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&num=12972 http://renewal.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&n... as part of a major crackdown on the border in the past year or so.
msane 11y ago
There is a growing amount of cheap contraband smartphones and electronics in DPRK. When it reaches a critical mass, the only thing stopping a revolution will be ISP access. Well-timed satellite or balloon based WiFi could foment a revolution?
- redcalx 11y ago
  "Well-timed satellite or balloon based WiFi could foment a revolution?" Assuming the key players want a revolution, i.e. China, US, South Korea. We've seen how those sorts of revolutions can play out and they're not always better than what came before, at least in the short term (I'm mainly thinking about Syria and Yemen).
  - pc86 11y ago
    A democratic DPRK that hates the US is still probably better than a totalitarian DPRK that is ambivalent/slightly negative.
    - a3voices 11y ago
      Unless the democratic DPRK uses more terrorism against us.
      - jacquesm 11y ago
        Even more? Fear is a terrible advisor.
      - pc86 11y ago
        Worse for us, sure. Still probably better for the people of the DPRK, assuming it's truly democratic.
        a3voices 11y ago
        Not necessarily. If the culture sucks, then democracy results in something like Iran.
needhelpplz 11y ago
I sometimes fantasize about setting up a website or a kickstarter that lets people send balloons with the $9 chip, GPS, and tiny fans that will guide it any point in the map. The problem with weather balloons that are being sent from South Korea is that 1) Korean government are too much of a pussy to aggravate North (given their lack of response after naval ship attack and island shelling) so they attack activists 2) The weather balloons mostly end up in unreachable places, no way of knowing if it was successful. It would be like a website or a kickstarter where people could pay to send packages that include communication equipment, non perishable food items, medkits, insurgency, guerilla warfare, etc. Imagine the impact this would have on North Korea when suddenly the citizens are communicating anonymously with each other and outside world. This can only be done if the balloons could self guide themselves using GPS with a high degree of accuracy, and they be launched outside of South Korea. Maybe it can be done from America but the pacific ocean is turbulent and it will be tough to make it all the way in to North Korea. Japan is the best bet but South Korea will probably pressure them. So this leaves out launching it directly from the States, the challenge and costs go up dramatically since the journey must be made across pacific ocean.
- josefresco 11y ago
  "too much of a pussy" Poor choice of language aside - South Korea has much more to lose in a direct or indirect conflict, and even if victorious (very likely despite the "size" of the NK force) would still sustain casualties that make them countering any NK aggression ... complicated.
- sosborn 11y ago
  > Korean government are too much of a pussy to aggravate North Perhaps they are more concerned with the well being of their citizens in Seoul than with being the big tough guy.
ballerindustry 11y ago
"How to smuggle 1K..." Technically it was $700
- sgustard 11y ago
  It's a good point. Kevin's mother asked for $1000, but she ended up with less. Feels like sloppy reporting.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

167 points by admp 11y ago

ck2 11y ago

So this article just detailed for north korea government how people are smuggling. Which means people are going to be found and killed. How is this a good idea? This is people's very lives. If even one person is executed over this, do the journalists just shrug and go browse amazon some more or wander around the mall? If you want to expose North Korea, expose the government, not the people desperately trying to survive. I love how we are freaking out about Iran, meanwhile North Korea makes Iran look like disneyland and actually HAS nuclear weapons AND missiles they can be attached to. The deep hypocrisy with only caring about Israel is thick and deadly.

wiradikusuma 11y ago
I think it (should) work both ways. By having it exposed (which I believe the NK govt know already), probably some sympathetic people smarter than me could come up with a better solution.
kuyfiuyg 11y ago
They already know. When they catch people, they have ways to make people tell them anything.
cantrevealname 11y ago
> So this article just detailed for north korea government how people are smuggling. Which means people are going to be found and killed. The article is generalities. Don't you think the government would already know all that? If the government had caught and interrogated even a single smuggler or a single person who'd received foreign goods, they'd know far more specific information than this article gave.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
venomsnake 11y ago
The NK not only knows about that smuggling, but also probably takes cut of the profits from it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_39 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_39

cantrevealname 11y ago

One thing bothers me about the article. This guy Kevin is able to get elderly relatives to practice good opsec. They walk to distant locations to make and receive calls, presumably at predetermined times; they avoid mentioning real names and other personally identifiable information; they speak for a strict 100 seconds or less. Carefully trained people could do all this certainly, but how would you train an elderly relative you left in your backward homeland with all this trade-craft, especially since you can't train them face to face, but you're limited to brief phone calls? Perhaps the opsec has been exaggerated to make the article more thrilling, or the opsec is true but it's a professional smuggling ring not involving elderly relatives.

pkkim 11y ago
I'm not an expert, but I would suspect that life in North Korea is good training for being very careful with things like this.
- S4M 11y ago
  Yep, I remember reading on another article posted on HN that North Korea's economy depends a lot on the black market, which means that North Koreans must be cunning in their every day lives to get the basic things they need.
- Agathos 11y ago
  Yet another gratuitous cruelty: the killer [famine] targets the most innocent, the people who would never steal food, lie, cheat, break the law, or betray a friend. It was a phenomenon that the Italian writer Primo Levi identified after emerging from Auschwitz, when he wrote that he and his fellow survivors never wanted to see one another again after the war because they had all done something of which they were ashamed. As Mrs. Song would observe a decade later, when she thought back on all the people she knew who died during those years in Chongjin, it was the “simple and kindhearted people who did what they were told—they were the first to die.” -- Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea by Barbara Demick
j_lev 11y ago
You're not the only one that is bothered by the article. The thing that triggered my radar was that the entire thing read like fiction. If it looks like a duck,... The dictionary sounds like bullshit. North Korean and South Korean are completely different dialects, with different orthography and spelling. Bigger differences than different spellings in English. I can't see a dictionary like that being of any use to his family. There is no way sources can ever be checked, and that means anywhere from 0 to 100% of the article could be fabricated. (edit: an analogy to better describe the dubious usefulness of the dictionary, it would be like a native Greek using a French-English dictionary to learn English)

merraksh 11y ago

The stranger on the other line is usually a girl, a Joseonjok girl. The woman gives Kevin a South Korean bank account number, to which Joseph wires $1,000. Joseph was not mentioned before in the article. Is that another fake name for Kevin, that the author forgot to replace? I don't understand otherwise.

yitchelle 11y ago
From what I can comprehend of the article, Joseph is the name of the person that "wired" the money into the Sth Korean bank. I guess that this is another obfuscation layer for identity hiding.
huac 11y ago
Honestly sounds like a 'real name' for Kevin (it mentions his Christian faith, and Joseph is a 'better' Christian name than Kevin).

jonah 11y ago

Here's a piece from 2014 about sending propaganda to NK via balloon. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/we-hacked-north-korea-with-balloons-and-usb-drives/283106/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/we-...

jkot 11y ago

In my experience from communist Czechoslovakia, western stuff is not actually prohibited. It is illegal for peasants, but communist elite can enjoy all luxuries they can effort.

enedil 11y ago
Chechoslovakia was never actualy communist. Like in Poland, Eastern Germany and several other countries, it was socialist.
- onion2k 11y ago
  Under the Ninth-of-May Constitution, the Czech government, that was controlled by the Communist Party, nationalised all industrial and commercial businesses that had more than 50 employees. That is communism - the means of production were owned and operated by the state.
- ADRIANFR 11y ago
  The difference between socialism and communism was all in the "communist" propaganda. All east-european countries were "socialist" with the almost utopian goal of becoming "communist". It's a label that could be changed at anytime by the leaders. Technically, according to the doctrine, socialism was "everybody contributes based on ability, and receives based on the contribution", while communism was: "everybody contributes based on ability, and receives based on their needs", which was utopian. Western countries did not (want to) grasp the difference, so they just called the eastern block "communist".
  - msandford 11y ago
    Under those definitions, isn't most of "socialist Europe" not really socialist? I mean a lot of countries have got a safety net and welfare programs and all that which seemingly are standardized, not indexed to your previous income. So you pay in with taxes that are based on what you make (and thus you contribute based on ability). Or is the idea that you keep a portion of your pay after taxes the "receives based on contribution" portion?

NicoJuicy 11y ago

Since i once read that North Korea has a team of PR-people for online communities ( like Russia does), could HN check for the ip range of North Korea for possible propaganda here and indicate it? ( kinda interesting) If someone of HN read this, the ip range is : 175.45.176.0 – 175.45.179.255 & 210.52.109.0 – 210.52.109.255

shocks 11y ago
Russia do this too. I imagine they're smart enough to use VPNs or something.
jmnicolas 11y ago
You know what should interest you, is that YOUR country is astroturfing (and probably much more than NK). There's probably 99% chances that you will detect NK astroturfing (they're not natives), but how well can you detect astroturfing from your country ?
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  ~Easily. If they espouse opinions contrary to my own, they must be government shills.~ ~Oh, hang on. I accidentally left my foil hat on. Let me take that off.~ It only takes a slightly elevated level of awareness. Usually, just knowing that it is possible that a participant in the discussion could be a paid propagandist is enough to spot likely candidates. While you can never really know for sure, if you check their posting history, and they only seem to care about exactly one thing, that's a strong indicator of suspicion. On some of the message boards I frequented in the past, the general subject matter was such that it was extraordinarily easy to spot the cop whenever one showed up. They always did exactly the same thing, and it never worked even once. It usually went something like this. A: Hey guys, we should get together and *do* something. B: Sure. Tell us your plan and we'll tell you if we're in. A: [*describes an overtly criminal act, usually involving violence*] C: Go back to writing traffic tickets, undercover cop. D: Do you actually get paid to annoy us, or are you doing it on a volunteer basis? B: You should take a look at your bosses instead of spying on us. E: [*spouts unrelated crackpot claptrap*] (end of thread) On a more general forum, such as HN, with a much larger and more diverse audience, it is a bit more difficult to spot the paid propagandist. And the professionals have honed their skills in the past few years. They spend more time setting up for the payoff, building reputation and credibility, before using an identity for a mission-critical message. They almost certainly have voting rings set up on every site that uses voting. Anyway, any genuine NK astroturfers would probably be doing it from a non-NK IP block. They're just brainwashed by their cult-like government, not stupid. They ones trusted to access the Internet to further the interests of their leaders almost certainly have access to Chinese, Russian, and American IP addresses.

Lancey 11y ago

> Smuggling goods is highly punishable, and letting people pass through the North Korean border, rather than shooting them, could get the border guards killed instantly. This made me think the border guards have Running Man-esque bomb collars around their necks. I'm sure there's consequences, but compared to shooting smugglers I don't think their punishment would be that instant.

omegaham 11y ago
Summary execution is pretty expedient, especially if you don't care about the facts.

BuildTheRobots 11y ago

> Detection tools and systems to track down international phone calls made inside North Korea are becoming increasingly accurate and more widespread, so calls must be kept under two minutes. Could someone elaborate on this... keeping calls <2min to stop them being traced seems painfully Hollywood

Vexs 11y ago
No idea if this is right, but I imagine that's how long it takes to get the word out to start tracking this number, after which the actual tracking happens quickly.
grecy 11y ago
Speaking from a telco perspective, all of our switches make a CDR (call data record) for ALL calls in and out. Origin number, destination number, number of seconds, date stamp, etc. etc. There are millions of CDRs per day. It would be trivial to filter them for calls to/from certain ranges of numbers. EDIT: To be clear, it makes no difference if your call is one second or one hour, I can easily find the CDR for it and prove you made/received a call from/to X
- goodcanadian 11y ago
  You are correct, of course, except that I highly doubt North Korea has access to Chinese telephone records. As another commenter pointed out, the North Koreans are probably relying on radio triangulation. With the right resources, I'm sure they could detect that a call is occurring almost immediately, and perhaps even pinpoint where it is coming from, but they still have to go out and catch them. I don't know what resources the North Koreans actually have, but I suspect they are fairly limited.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - leoc 11y ago
    There are reports that the DPRK government splashed out on mobile-phone radio detectors http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?num=12545&cataId=nk01500 http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?num=12545&cataId=nk0... http://renewal.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&num=12972 http://renewal.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&n... as part of a major crackdown on the border in the past year or so.

msane 11y ago

There is a growing amount of cheap contraband smartphones and electronics in DPRK. When it reaches a critical mass, the only thing stopping a revolution will be ISP access. Well-timed satellite or balloon based WiFi could foment a revolution?

redcalx 11y ago
"Well-timed satellite or balloon based WiFi could foment a revolution?" Assuming the key players want a revolution, i.e. China, US, South Korea. We've seen how those sorts of revolutions can play out and they're not always better than what came before, at least in the short term (I'm mainly thinking about Syria and Yemen).
- pc86 11y ago
  A democratic DPRK that hates the US is still probably better than a totalitarian DPRK that is ambivalent/slightly negative.
  - a3voices 11y ago
    Unless the democratic DPRK uses more terrorism against us.
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      Even more? Fear is a terrible advisor.
    - pc86 11y ago
      Worse for us, sure. Still probably better for the people of the DPRK, assuming it's truly democratic.
      - a3voices 11y ago
        Not necessarily. If the culture sucks, then democracy results in something like Iran.

needhelpplz 11y ago

I sometimes fantasize about setting up a website or a kickstarter that lets people send balloons with the $9 chip, GPS, and tiny fans that will guide it any point in the map. The problem with weather balloons that are being sent from South Korea is that 1) Korean government are too much of a pussy to aggravate North (given their lack of response after naval ship attack and island shelling) so they attack activists 2) The weather balloons mostly end up in unreachable places, no way of knowing if it was successful. It would be like a website or a kickstarter where people could pay to send packages that include communication equipment, non perishable food items, medkits, insurgency, guerilla warfare, etc. Imagine the impact this would have on North Korea when suddenly the citizens are communicating anonymously with each other and outside world. This can only be done if the balloons could self guide themselves using GPS with a high degree of accuracy, and they be launched outside of South Korea. Maybe it can be done from America but the pacific ocean is turbulent and it will be tough to make it all the way in to North Korea. Japan is the best bet but South Korea will probably pressure them. So this leaves out launching it directly from the States, the challenge and costs go up dramatically since the journey must be made across pacific ocean.

josefresco 11y ago
"too much of a pussy" Poor choice of language aside - South Korea has much more to lose in a direct or indirect conflict, and even if victorious (very likely despite the "size" of the NK force) would still sustain casualties that make them countering any NK aggression ... complicated.
sosborn 11y ago
> Korean government are too much of a pussy to aggravate North Perhaps they are more concerned with the well being of their citizens in Seoul than with being the big tough guy.

ballerindustry 11y ago

"How to smuggle 1K..." Technically it was $700

sgustard 11y ago
It's a good point. Kevin's mother asked for $1000, but she ended up with less. Feels like sloppy reporting.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]