5 ms·

I don't understand the financials on this. Unless this is a non-profit charity (and funded by donations), I can't see how Even stays in business. The key point

I don't understand the financials on this. Unless this is a non-profit charity (and funded by donations), I can't see how Even stays in business. The key point as I understand it from reading: - if I make more money than the average, i get the savings and Even does not make any money off of it - if I make less money than the average, Even will give me an interest free loan that I don't have to pay back Seems fairly easy for someone to game this system so they get more $$ than they pay in, how do you protect against that? Freelance works on Uber / Lyft / etc can set the amount of hours they work easily. And then stop using Even when they've earned more than they've paid in. To be clear: I like the idea a lot, I'm just looking for more info about how it intends to stay operational.

run4yourlives2 11y ago
1. They calculate the average. I'd imagine they'd like you to be "over average" more often than not. 2. All "overages" go into an account they control. Sure it's yours, but they are pooling money from all users and investing it in the meantime. Bullshit they aren't making money off of it. It isn't sitting under their mattress, that's for sure. 3. They promise no interest either way, but the amount they "loan" people is more than covered off in interest earnings on the pooled "overages" from all users. 4. On top of all that, they charge $12 a month. I think they've got the profit side down.
- davrosthedalek 11y ago
  They claim they don't earn interest on the savings. From their FAQ: "Money you've saved with Even does not earn interest. To be candid, if Even savings did earn interest, you would only earn about a dollar per year. For what it's worth, Even doesn't make any money off your savings." So they do that all for $12 a month?
  - run4yourlives2 11y ago
    Money you've saved with Even does not earn interest. For YOU. Not for them. They say it goes into an insured bank account. The moment you put any money into a bank account, it stands to reason it earns interest. For what it's worth, Even doesn't make any money off your savings." That isn't the same as saying they don't earn money off of these accounts. It just may not make them any profit, hence the $12.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    They claim YOU don't earn interest. They likely put all the money together in on e big account, which probably earns a decent chunk of interest.
- jschlossberg 11y ago
  We don't make money off savings. Not sure how to be clearer than that.
  - run4yourlives2 11y ago
    Do you earn interest on the pooled savings though? Some of the largest insurance companies in the world "don't make money" off of premiums either, but they are multi-billion dollar organizations.
    - jschlossberg 11y ago
      No, we do not earn interest on the savings. The bank does.
      - run4yourlives2 11y ago
        Just to be clear, you deposit this money into bank accounts and then allow the bank to retain interest owned, with no part coming back to Even? That seems either extremely generous, tremendously stupid, or frankly, a little shady. You wouldn't happened to be owned in whole or in part by this same bank, would you? Do you receive other, unrelated back channel income from your partners in relation to Even? (Sorry for being intrusive, but I'm trying to figure out why you would essentially throw away thousands of dollars a month in interest earnings).
        jschlossberg 11y ago
        No need to apologize, asking lots of questions is like boarding the express train to learningtown. I may choose to not answer, but that's on me, not on you. Banks don't yield interest on savings, so we're not "allowing" the bank to retain anything. It's not like having money just magically procreates into more money. Banks pay interest on savings to their customers because their business model is "we get money in the form of savings, pay a little interest so people keep that money with us, and then we lend those savings to other people at higher interest. Boom, profit." If we kept the interest yielded on savings held with Even, we would be taking money away from our customers, not from the banks. I think you might be vastly overestimating the amount of money you can make doing this, let alone the fact that it's a pretty dick thing to do. The only way we make money is the subscription cost of using Even.
jackfrodo 11y ago
Did you read through it all the way? You pay back the loan on your next greater-than-average paycheck. And every user pays $12 a month.
NeutronBoy 11y ago
All they reference is the $3/pw subscription fee. They will also find funds from other users who have earnt more than their average and had pay 'withheld' by Even, which I assume they'll earn interest from. However, it seems that without a critical mass of users it would struggle to finance itself.
alooPotato 11y ago
I think if you make more, then even "saves" it. The question is where does it get saved? If the money is held by Even they might be able to make interest off it. The core assumption here being that they will be able to relend it to you when you go below your average. For the model to make sense, they probably will discount what they think you're true average monthly wage is so that the savings rate averages out to positive.
- alooPotato 11y ago
  Ahhh there it is in their FAQ: "Money you save with Even is held in an FDIC insured account at one of our several partner banks."
  - ryandrake 11y ago
    Huh? Is this service for people who can't get bank accounts?
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > Huh? Is this service for people who can't get bank accounts? No; need a bank account to use the service. (It also sounds from the Terms of Service -- which are oddly ambiguously worded -- like you may need to have online access to your account and share your credentials with Even.)

run4yourlives2 11y ago

1. They calculate the average. I'd imagine they'd like you to be "over average" more often than not. 2. All "overages" go into an account they control. Sure it's yours, but they are pooling money from all users and investing it in the meantime. Bullshit they aren't making money off of it. It isn't sitting under their mattress, that's for sure. 3. They promise no interest either way, but the amount they "loan" people is more than covered off in interest earnings on the pooled "overages" from all users. 4. On top of all that, they charge $12 a month. I think they've got the profit side down.

davrosthedalek 11y ago
They claim they don't earn interest on the savings. From their FAQ: "Money you've saved with Even does not earn interest. To be candid, if Even savings did earn interest, you would only earn about a dollar per year. For what it's worth, Even doesn't make any money off your savings." So they do that all for $12 a month?
- run4yourlives2 11y ago
  Money you've saved with Even does not earn interest. For YOU. Not for them. They say it goes into an insured bank account. The moment you put any money into a bank account, it stands to reason it earns interest. For what it's worth, Even doesn't make any money off your savings." That isn't the same as saying they don't earn money off of these accounts. It just may not make them any profit, hence the $12.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  They claim YOU don't earn interest. They likely put all the money together in on e big account, which probably earns a decent chunk of interest.
jschlossberg 11y ago
We don't make money off savings. Not sure how to be clearer than that.
- run4yourlives2 11y ago
  Do you earn interest on the pooled savings though? Some of the largest insurance companies in the world "don't make money" off of premiums either, but they are multi-billion dollar organizations.
  - jschlossberg 11y ago
    No, we do not earn interest on the savings. The bank does.
    - run4yourlives2 11y ago
      Just to be clear, you deposit this money into bank accounts and then allow the bank to retain interest owned, with no part coming back to Even? That seems either extremely generous, tremendously stupid, or frankly, a little shady. You wouldn't happened to be owned in whole or in part by this same bank, would you? Do you receive other, unrelated back channel income from your partners in relation to Even? (Sorry for being intrusive, but I'm trying to figure out why you would essentially throw away thousands of dollars a month in interest earnings).
      - jschlossberg 11y ago
        No need to apologize, asking lots of questions is like boarding the express train to learningtown. I may choose to not answer, but that's on me, not on you. Banks don't yield interest on savings, so we're not "allowing" the bank to retain anything. It's not like having money just magically procreates into more money. Banks pay interest on savings to their customers because their business model is "we get money in the form of savings, pay a little interest so people keep that money with us, and then we lend those savings to other people at higher interest. Boom, profit." If we kept the interest yielded on savings held with Even, we would be taking money away from our customers, not from the banks. I think you might be vastly overestimating the amount of money you can make doing this, let alone the fact that it's a pretty dick thing to do. The only way we make money is the subscription cost of using Even.

jackfrodo 11y ago

Did you read through it all the way? You pay back the loan on your next greater-than-average paycheck. And every user pays $12 a month.

NeutronBoy 11y ago

All they reference is the $3/pw subscription fee. They will also find funds from other users who have earnt more than their average and had pay 'withheld' by Even, which I assume they'll earn interest from. However, it seems that without a critical mass of users it would struggle to finance itself.

alooPotato 11y ago

I think if you make more, then even "saves" it. The question is where does it get saved? If the money is held by Even they might be able to make interest off it. The core assumption here being that they will be able to relend it to you when you go below your average. For the model to make sense, they probably will discount what they think you're true average monthly wage is so that the savings rate averages out to positive.

alooPotato 11y ago
Ahhh there it is in their FAQ: "Money you save with Even is held in an FDIC insured account at one of our several partner banks."
- ryandrake 11y ago
  Huh? Is this service for people who can't get bank accounts?
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Huh? Is this service for people who can't get bank accounts? No; need a bank account to use the service. (It also sounds from the Terms of Service -- which are oddly ambiguously worded -- like you may need to have online access to your account and share your credentials with Even.)