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I watched a few of the rescues, and they were all of kids falling out of their floaties and seemingly unable to swim at all. What does it look like when an able

I watched a few of the rescues, and they were all of kids falling out of their floaties and seemingly unable to swim at all. What does it look like when an able swimmer encounters trouble? Would it look the same as the drowning response kicks in? Also, how do you differentiate the drowning response from someone that's just bad at treading water and floats low in the water? They might both be bobbing just in and out of the water, but one of them can just transition to floating on their back and the other is trying to not drown. (I haven't swam in forever and don't know if I can even swim anymore, but I was reminded of childhood swimming lesson tests.)

omegaworks 11y ago
If you can find a video of this scenario on youtube please let me know. I found this series of wavepool videos on the HN thread posted a few days ago (thanks oska!) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947237
aidenn0 11y ago
The one I saw was a kid who had some swimming ability that fell out of a tube. He swam a poor crawl, without putting his head in the water for about 4-5s before going under.
Garph 11y ago
I spent three summers life guarding at a US state park and would like to give my personal experiences, even if it doesn't give a definitive answer to your question. Always trust yourself. Any suspicion on your part is more than enough reason to go help. These guards have excellent reactions and don't try to make a judgement call between distress and drowning. While new to the job, I hesitated trying to verify patrons needed a rescue instead of going in immediately. While this is anecdotal, I also found that poor treaders often made attempts to move to more secure depths. Struggling is no fun, and most people swim to have fun. The dangerous cases were people who did not know their swimming ability chasing family into the deep end. Lastly we didn't allow floaties in the water, and I think everyone who sees this video should notice the trend and think twice about them.
ntoronto 11y ago
> Also, how do you differentiate the drowning response from someone that's just bad at treading water and floats low in the water? Watch the face, arms and legs, and water surface. A swimmer in distress has his mouth as high as possible, may be flailing a little with his arms, barely kicks (if at all), barely disturbs the surface of the water, and goes under repeatedly. But as a lifeguard, I helped weak swimmers, and then requested very firmly that they stay in shallow water. I also took their names so I could get their attention quickly if they wandered too close to the deep end.
rhaps0dy 11y ago
I'm still curious about this: "What does it look like when an able swimmer encounters trouble?" Do adults drown as often as children?
- ntoronto 11y ago
  Facts: http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/wa... When an adult or adolescent drowns, it looks exactly the same, they're much more dangerous to would-be helpers, and half the time they're drunk and surrounded by drunk people.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- astalwick 11y ago
  You'd be surprised. This is in Canada, not sure about the US. Deaths per 100,000 people (drowning), Canada, 2006-2010: 0-4: 1.1 5-12: 0.6 13-17: 0.9 18-24: 2.2 24-34: 1.6 34-49: 1.4 50-64: 1.7 65+: 1.6 I don't have the source handy, but I'll try to dig it up. Edit: Source - http://www.lifesavingsociety.com/media/157475/2013-cdndrowningreport.pdf http://www.lifesavingsociety.com/media/157475/2013-cdndrowni...
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    The gadget here puts the overall US rate at 1.07 in 2013 http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html I did 18-24, it says 1.18. 24-34, 0.98. 5-12, 0.49. I wonder what factors into the differences. I'm sure things like number of guarded facilities, number of swimmers and amount of swim classes are important, it's the specific differences that would be interesting.
    - Rebelgecko 11y ago
      If you go year by year it looks like the rate goes up from 17-20, then after 21 starts to decrease. Somewhere else on the CDC's website they say that "alcohol use is involved in up to 70% of deaths associated with water recreation", which seems pretty consistent with that.

omegaworks 11y ago

If you can find a video of this scenario on youtube please let me know. I found this series of wavepool videos on the HN thread posted a few days ago (thanks oska!) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947237

aidenn0 11y ago

The one I saw was a kid who had some swimming ability that fell out of a tube. He swam a poor crawl, without putting his head in the water for about 4-5s before going under.

Garph 11y ago

I spent three summers life guarding at a US state park and would like to give my personal experiences, even if it doesn't give a definitive answer to your question. Always trust yourself. Any suspicion on your part is more than enough reason to go help. These guards have excellent reactions and don't try to make a judgement call between distress and drowning. While new to the job, I hesitated trying to verify patrons needed a rescue instead of going in immediately. While this is anecdotal, I also found that poor treaders often made attempts to move to more secure depths. Struggling is no fun, and most people swim to have fun. The dangerous cases were people who did not know their swimming ability chasing family into the deep end. Lastly we didn't allow floaties in the water, and I think everyone who sees this video should notice the trend and think twice about them.

ntoronto 11y ago

> Also, how do you differentiate the drowning response from someone that's just bad at treading water and floats low in the water? Watch the face, arms and legs, and water surface. A swimmer in distress has his mouth as high as possible, may be flailing a little with his arms, barely kicks (if at all), barely disturbs the surface of the water, and goes under repeatedly. But as a lifeguard, I helped weak swimmers, and then requested very firmly that they stay in shallow water. I also took their names so I could get their attention quickly if they wandered too close to the deep end.

rhaps0dy 11y ago

I'm still curious about this: "What does it look like when an able swimmer encounters trouble?" Do adults drown as often as children?

ntoronto 11y ago
Facts: http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/wa... When an adult or adolescent drowns, it looks exactly the same, they're much more dangerous to would-be helpers, and half the time they're drunk and surrounded by drunk people.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
astalwick 11y ago
You'd be surprised. This is in Canada, not sure about the US. Deaths per 100,000 people (drowning), Canada, 2006-2010: 0-4: 1.1 5-12: 0.6 13-17: 0.9 18-24: 2.2 24-34: 1.6 34-49: 1.4 50-64: 1.7 65+: 1.6 I don't have the source handy, but I'll try to dig it up. Edit: Source - http://www.lifesavingsociety.com/media/157475/2013-cdndrowningreport.pdf http://www.lifesavingsociety.com/media/157475/2013-cdndrowni...
- maxerickson 11y ago
  The gadget here puts the overall US rate at 1.07 in 2013 http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html I did 18-24, it says 1.18. 24-34, 0.98. 5-12, 0.49. I wonder what factors into the differences. I'm sure things like number of guarded facilities, number of swimmers and amount of swim classes are important, it's the specific differences that would be interesting.
  - Rebelgecko 11y ago
    If you go year by year it looks like the rate goes up from 17-20, then after 21 starts to decrease. Somewhere else on the CDC's website they say that "alcohol use is involved in up to 70% of deaths associated with water recreation", which seems pretty consistent with that.