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‘Sea Slaves’: The human misery that feeds pets and livestock
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- Karunamon 11y agoFor yourself, maybe, for your pets, absolutely not. Cats are strict carnivores[1], and dogs, while they can survive on a veg diet, it is not what they evolved to consume[2]. [1]: http://www.petmd.com/cat/nutrition/evr_ct_cat_nutritional_needs_different http://www.petmd.com/cat/nutrition/evr_ct_cat_nutritional_ne... [2]: http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html Your friends are literally killing their pets. Please either inform them and make sure they stop it, or inform the local humane society/animal shelter and get them taken away. Noondip's now deleted comment was as follows: Another excellent reason to go vegan, both for yourself and your pets. I'm not an authority on this, but my friends have bragged about their cats and dogs alike living a healthy, happy life on a plant-based diet.
- noondip 11y agoLinking two articles without any authors cited is hardly a compelling argument. I'm also quite sure dogs did not evolve to eat canned dog food laden with broken beaks, brain, spinal cord tissue, bones, lungs, intestinal tracts from slaughterhouse wastes of dead, dying, diseased or disabled animals, not to mention other contaminants such as PCBs and heavy metals. You may be surprised to know they DO work for a local animal rescue, and take great care of their beloved animals. Whether their dogs and cats are 100% vegan is unknown to me, which is why I said they're fed a mostly plant-based diet, surely with nutrient fortified supplements. What's clear is they are keeping healthy and happy animals without feeding them meat and commercial dog food exclusively. I removed my original comment as to not misinform pet owners.
- buffportion 11y ago> broken beaks, brain, spinal cord tissue, bones, lungs, intestinal tracts from slaughterhouse wastes of dead, dying, diseased or disabled animals I'm no zoologist, but this seems exactly the kind of thing that a carnivorous/omnivorous wild animal would happily eat.
- Coding_Cat 11y agoSpinal cords, marrow, organs (especially brains) tend to be very nutrious in fact. When given a choice, most wild animals will preffer what we call the waste.
- OopsCriticality 11y agoThere is a theory that falconry developed in part because birds of prey will first eat the nutritious parts of prey (i.e. the spinal cords, marrow, organs, etc.) leaving the muscle for the very last. Since humans largely prefer the muscle, it forms the basis for a lovely friendship.
- cbaleanu 11y agoWhen I grew up, my grandmother would sometimes cook brain schnitzel - it was considered a delicacy.
- liotier 11y agoBoiled lamb brain with a splash of citrus juice - sweet memories of my childhood in Paris !
- ceejayoz 11y agoHell, the wolves dogs are descended for preferentially go for the dead, dying, diseased, and disabled animals (and the young). They're easier and safer to hunt.
- trhway 11y ago>> broken beaks, brain, spinal cord tissue, bones, lungs, intestinal tracts from slaughterhouse wastes of dead, dying, diseased or disabled animals >I'm no zoologist, but this seems exactly the kind of thing that a carnivorous/omnivorous wild animal would happily eat. it is just pretty naive pastoral picture that many fall victims to. To start - beaks, feathers, hoofs, horns and many other pieces the cats/dogs wouldn't eat naturally. The second, most important - that stuff is flooded with strong chemicals to avoid perishing until it reaches the pet food manufacturer. This isn't preservatives from your canned food. It is basically unregulated industrial toxic stuff. And thus it ends up in the stomachs of the cats and dogs. And thus the epidemic of various autoimmune and cancer diseases.
- mturmon 11y agoI can't speak for cats, but it's certainly possible for dogs to do fine on a vegetarian diet. I know several dog owners who do this. You may have to do blood work, and be more observant about their health. Note: Dogs, not cats, and vegetarian, not vegan. I notice you were careful to make these distinctions in your first paragraph, but then (IMHO) went too far with "Your friends are literally killing their pets."
- duskwuff 11y agoCats are another matter. Unlike most other animals, they cannot biosynthesize taurine; they must find it in their diet, and it's mostly found in meat and meat products. As such, cats are obligate carnivores -- they cannot survive on a vegan or vegetarian diet.
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- colechristensen 11y agoCats are obligate carnivores, dogs are not. That is, there are several nutrients that cats have completely lost the ability to manufacture in their own tissues which are only found in animal sources (and whole animals, certain things are only found in certain tissues). Vegan or vegetarian diets for cats have to be heavily supplemented with nutrients which are either animal-derived or entirely synthetic (and the type of people who want to feed their cats vegan food are also the type of people who have big problems with synthetic chemistry as food). Dogs (and humans) do a bad job at manufacturing many nutrients with animal sources, where cats don't do it at all, we just do it poorly. Supplementation and careful diet design make it possible to thrive on plant-based food. If you tried making your own plant-based cat food without a chemistry lab and a PhD, you'd be literally killing your cat. If you tried to make your own plant-based dog food (or baby food) you'd probably end up with huge risks of malnourishment, but it's still possible with careful monitoring.
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- d883kd8 11y agoI am sorry to be so blunt but I must correct this dangerous misinformation. Feeding a cat a vegan diet will kill him. Period. They are carnivores and cannot live without animal-derived nutrition. Any vet can tell you about cases of malnourished cats whose irresponsible owners failed to provide enough meat.
- pyre 11y ago> They are carnivores and cannot live without animal-derived nutrition. I'm curious what nutrients can only be animal-derived. Some nutrients are probably cheaper to get from animals, but I am curious what nutrients can only come from animals. I know several people that "make their own" vegan cat food, and their animals are not sick, sickly or dying. It is quite possible that their lifespan has been shortened by the vegan diet, but I would definitely not state boldly that they "cannot live without animal-derived nutrition" because they are clearly living without animal-derived nutrition.
- juliangregorian 11y agoLots of carnivores don't have the ability to manufacture all of the amino acids their body requires. They need to get them from other animals, often because their digestive system isn't able to break down plant matter. The same is true of many vitamins. Each animal is different.
- pyre 11y agoThis doesn't mean that it necessarily has to come from animals though. Unlike many animals, humans don't manufacture their own vitamin C. We can get vitamin C by eating other animals, but we can also get it from sources rich in vitamin C like oranges, bananas or lemons[1]. If a human isn't able to digest citrus, it's also possible to obtain vitamin C supplements. [1] I'll note that limes are lacking enough in vitamin C that when the Royal Navy switched from lemons to limes (they were cheaper) sailors started getting scurvy again, and the 'cure' for scurvy was lost until the actual reason that lemons cure scurvy (vitamin C) was discovered.
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- Carrok 11y agoFeeding your (naturally carnivorous) dog or cat only plants is in my mind nothing short of animal abuse. Feel free to harbor whatever nutritional or moral beliefs you please, but when you force them on creatures with no voice of their own, you are suddenly less innocent. There is no way a dog or cat can get a complete diet from eating only plants.
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- justizin 11y agomeat supplements and plants fortified with meat?
- noondip 11y ago> Feel free to harbor whatever nutritional or moral beliefs you please, but when you force them on creatures with no voice of their own, you are suddenly less innocent. That's exactly the argument being made here for going vegan.
- ceejayoz 11y ago> That's exactly the argument being made here for going vegan. And it works, if you ignore the field mice who wind up in the giant harvesting machines.
- nzp 11y agoDo you think meat appears out of thin air? What do you think a farm animal (which at that point is a horribly inefficient energy converter) eats? Concern for field mice is a very good reason to go vegan.
- ceejayoz 11y ago> What do you think a farm animal (which at that point is a horribly inefficient energy converter) eats? Pasture grazed cows eat grass, pigs can eat our food scraps, and chickens can be a great pest mitigant if allowed to graze fairly freely. You certainly don't have to get grain-fed animals from giant factory lots.
- colechristensen 11y agoYou write as if there aren't slaves trapped in farm fields and factories as well. Perhaps we should also kill all of the apex predators in the world because the facts of life make you uncomfortable.
- mcantelon 11y agoIt's sad how little attention contemporary slavery gets versus historical examples of slavery. It would be great if Hollywood made a movie about this (or slavery in the middle east committed by Western allies).
- jrochkind1 11y agoOr slavery in the United States. Yep. http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicagarrison/the-new-american-slavery-invited-to-the-us-foreign-workers-f http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicagarrison/the-new-american-sla...
- marknutter 11y agoThat's not slavery, it's kidnapping, plain and simple. It's illegal and not condoned in any way by the U.S. government or society at large, so comparing it to slavery is a bit hyperbolic. But yes, it still sucks
- justizin 11y agoSince when did slavery not involve kidnapping? Slavery isn't defined as an inherently legal practice, it simply was legal in some places at some times. The secondarily linked story does also talk about local law enforcement being involved, so that is at least condoned "in a way", not "not in any way".
- mentat 11y agoSlavery doesn't involve kidnapping if there is a legal framework for selling people (which by definition isn't kidnapping).
- 1stop 11y agoAre you talking about people born into slavery? Like from slave parents. Because the transition from non slave to slave is some form of kidnapping/trafficking. The conversion of something to property is almost always a theft of some sort.
- logfromblammo 11y agoI don't know how anyone can read an article like this and still think seasteading can create a libertarian utopia.
- dropit_sphere 11y agoOh, why not. I have time. I don't think the seasteaders contend that there is something magic about being alone on the ocean that makes a good society. So in that sense, seasteading would not "create" anything. Rather, their idea is that the same freedom and informality that allows definitely-horrible things like this, would also allow for controversially horrible things, like libertarian policies. Not the sword but the wielder, etc.
- logfromblammo 11y agoThe people dreaming up the seasteading plans imagine self-sustaining, seaworthy rafts populated by like-minded individuals. They are, typically, the sort of person who has a rather positive opinion of human nature, and imagine that most other people are at least a tiny bit rational and ethical. They are not just ignoring, but never even considering, those people who already live "free" on the high seas: pirates, human traffickers, poachers of protected fisheries, smugglers, toxic waste dumpers, and the generally unsavory characters who are largely invisible to the rest of the world. Any seastead will eventually encounter those people, who are already out there, on their reefers and other largely obsoleted vessels. They do not subscribe to the non-aggression principle (NAP), and are often very skilled at concealing their unethical behavior from observers. I have never seen this issue seriously addressed by any NAP-libertarian. What do you do when a ship pulls up to your seastead's floating dock, and you see an unhappy man bolted to the deck with a neck chain? If the raft next door runs a brothel, how do you really know that none of the employees have been coerced into working there? If a factory-mothership offers to sell you its by-catch, should you worry about where it came from? Could a group of armed "guests" take control of your floating home? What do you do when your fish farm gets poached? Will you always know where the line between non-interference and complicity lies? If you make any wrong decisions, you may die, or attract the future ire of someone better armed than you. The key concept is that people who have better reasons for evading the laws of nation-states--typically prison or execution--are already out there. Furthermore, you can't positively identify them or their motives, nor can you avoid dealing with them in the long run. And if you establish a system that deals with them (and naturally, the traditional seasteader's bogeyman of a state-owned navy vessel) acceptably, how do you prevent that from turning into a government? And if those guys are already out there thumbing their noses at the law, why bother with the complicated engineering projects? Just buy an old reefer and take it out beyond the territorial limit, and you're done. It all makes me think that seasteading is a way to scam people afraid of losing some of their money into actually losing most of their money. If the promoters weren't out to sell speculative floating concrete boxes to credulous suckers, they could be actually operating one of those motherships, supplying and trading with people who live in international waters, on their existing convenience-flagged vessels. Why aren't they?
- IndianAstronaut 11y agoThailand is a huge culprit here and they get away with it because they managed to sandwich themselves as valuable allies to the west. I do wonder if there is any sort of image parsing and other analysis we can do on the oceans to spot these slave vessels.
- anon8418 11y agoHaving traveled to Thailand I was pretty shocked at how open(ly exploitive) and shameless the sex trade there is. I've always wondered why the Thai government and King are okay with condoning the massive sex tourism industry there (the majority of which is built to serve foreigners... which stands in contrast to the sex industries in other Asian countries). Don't they know that in the western world, Thais are at the butt of all the stereotypical sucky-sucky-me-so-horny jokes? I find it unbelievably demeaning culturally... and it seems so contradictory to the otherwise prideful Thai culture... Any local Thais care to comment?
- jpatokal 11y agoThailand's sex industry is indeed massive, but the vast majority of it caters to Thais; the bits that target Westerners -- a few dozen gogo bars in a country of 67 million -- just happen to have a much higher profile. Essentially all the women working in it are there of their own free will, if almost always because of economic hardship. (Typical scenario: Poor rural girl gets pregnant, boy disappears/dies in traffic accident. Girl can't support child and herself with farm labor or factory work, so she leaves the kid with grandparents and goes off to Pattaya.) And oh: the "me so horny" line comes from Full Metal Jacket, a Vietnam war movie.
- anon8418 11y agoI think comparatively, Thai's sex industry is way more foreign-friendly than any of the other asian countries (with maybe the exception of Phillipines). And yes, I do know the genesis of the "me so horny" line, but my point still stands. Thailand, especially the seedier aspects, is synonymous with "sex tourism" in the west. Compare the image of Thailand's sex industry with say that of Amsterdam's red light district...
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- j_lev 11y agoI'm struggling to take seriously any article from the NYT that is supposed to invoke outrage since I got duped by that recent nail salon article.
- rattray 11y agoWhat was the tldr of the nail salon dupe?
- kneisley 11y agoFormer NYT columnist Richard Bernstein laid down several research failures in Nir's original piece. I haven't read enough to agree with the assertion that it is duplicitous, but the refutation is compelling. http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2015/jul/25/nail-salons-new-york-times-got-wrong/ http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2015/jul/25/nail-salons...
- anti-shill 11y agowe had better allow them to come over here to the USA. Right?
- S4M 11y agoEach time I read a sad story like that in the comfort of my flat, I wonder: what can I do to help them? Then, I can't think of anything, and my mind tries to forget this cruelty being inflicted to others, and I move on with my life...
- andreasvc 11y agoI wonder the same thing. I think it boils down to donating to charity that helps people like this, and voting with your wallet by not buying products that are involved in this.
- asciimo 11y agoYou may not be able to directly help those currently enslaved by this system. But you can stop consuming the products that it produces, and encourage your friends and family to stop consuming these products.
- nzp 11y agoFor starters you can do what others suggested: don't buy products produced by this kind of labour. Then, you might take the time to ponder the causes of such things happening in the first place. I'll give a hint: it's capitalism, and the reason you don't see exploitation to such an extent in the West is because of the (very bloody) struggles workers waged here during the past two centuries. Then it's up to you what to do with that realization.
- gcb0 11y ago> "Mars moved to solution A" > "Nestle says they are doing all they can (mentions nothing)". why people still consume nestle? is it because their (free to collect) water is cheaper?
- rectangletangle 11y agoA lot of this is similar to the fishing industry in US, long exhausting shifts, dangerous slippery conditions, and cramped noisy sleeping quarters. The issue with minor cuts leading to infection is also persistent; "gurry" (misc fish parts) and salt water get under your gloves. There're even "mother ships," though they're referred to as tenders. Of course this is all voluntary, and the pay is much better. There're also environmental regulations, prohibiting unsustainable fishing practices.
- marincounty 11y ago"Bar codes on pet food in some European countries enable far-flung consumers to track Thai-exported seafood to its onshore processing facilities, where it was canned or otherwise packaged." I'd be one of those far-flung consumers if I was given the choice? I will read tuna cans more carefully.
- brc 11y agoTwo things that would improve the plight of these people: 1) fish origin labelling - which has massive benefits of other types. Currently there just isn't enough 'look through' to enable consumers to determine the source of seafood products. 2) a more developed economy in Cambodia and other places, so that nobody turns to people smugglers in desperation.
- phantom_oracle 11y agoI know the media likes to paint a bleak picture of the world cause that is what drives clicks to their sites and keeps their ad businesses rolling, but ... Doesn't it feel like the world has constantly been in this constant state of extreme suffering and extreme joy both co-existing in the modern era of humanity? For all the talk of progress a country may paint, they are either engaging in oppressive tactics locally or abroad. This seems to apply to a vast majority of countries throughout the world. I don't like to blame an ideology for humanities woes, because it is just that: an ideology. It does however seem that this unfettered capitalism has churned a greed so strong that those in power will do anything to keep their money-machines rolling. Eg. - Oil spills that indefinitely damage ocean-life for decades,centuries ... - Women and Child-trafficking to keep the prostitution industry going - Drug-smuggling, human-smuggling and all other types of smuggling to keep those industries going It almost feels like it never got worse, it just got more exposure and that its always been there, in the dark corners where we are scared to look, because we'd much rather shelter our lives with a quasi-happiness that ignores such an extreme-suffering of our fellow man/woman/child. I blame us all, starting with myself.
- wamsachel 11y ago>It almost feels like it never got worse, it just got more exposure and that its always been there, It's harrowing that the 20th century was labeled a century of genocide, when in reality it was the century that started exposing and denouncing it.
- AnimalMuppet 11y agoAlso the century that perfected and industrialized it. But yes, the exposure and outrage and "never again" is legitimately progress...
- ptaipale 11y agoHowever, post 1990, the number of people killed in wars and conflicts has gone down significantly.
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- rynprkr9 11y agoIt's very sad that Lang Long had to go through all the brutal hardship, and it is overwhelmingly tragic for him and his sisters to be in such a horrible misfortune. I came to the U.S. around the age of ten and worked as a night-shift cleaner for parking lots, cleaning up people's feces and urine on the floor of a business complex, getting hit by maggot filled trash bags when trying to pack them into dumpsters, grocery store / restaurant cashier and sweeper, and suffered from depression after parents got divorced, and later in life was devastated after my father committed suicide, in several occasions planned out in detail my own suicide but was too scared to go through with it, but whenever I read articles like these I feel that what I went through was nothing. Although I'm buried in debt now, I'm glad I had the opportunity to go through university and study the sciences which guided me in taking the proper direction in life - the U.S. is definitely one of those few places in the world where opportunities are far more accessible. My initial reaction to these types of articles is filled with empathy and sorrow and hope that people like Lang Long will have better future, but to be honest and be for real, in certain aspects, and in current era, we depend (in many cases we're not even aware of it) on the labors of people around the world in unfortunate circumstances so that we can benefit from them - the ugly side of this is... that the world is... an unforgiving place - there's gotta be someone out there doing the dirty work for someone else, I'd imagine that even the sea-slave traffickers themselves are trying to survive no different than Lang Long is, albeit in this particular case, they're brutal and inhumane. I hope for a day when all slaves are treated humanely or slavery completely abolished, and for the day humanoid machines or drones will take the place of humans (in more efficient way) in back-breaking work so that criminals like the traffickers will have less incentives to kidnap and put vulnerable people into inhumane slavery.
- chaostheory 11y agoI imagine this is why organizations like these exist http://kiva.org/ http://kiva.org/ http://watsi.org/ http://watsi.org/ Microloans and micro donations really improve lives in the 3rd world.
- jhaglund 11y agoExcept that's not really true. http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-05-30/new-research-indicates-microloans-dont-solve-poverty http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-05-30/new-research... http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/01/do-microloans-really-help-the-poor/384877/ http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/01/do-microloans-really-...
- tzs 11y agoThe story, and other stories linked in some of the comments, concern terrible things that happen to people in poor countries involved in producing things for rich countries. If those stories have not sufficiently depressed you, take a look at what happens to much of our stuff when we are done with it, and much of it ends up back in poor countries for salvage. http://www.npr.org/2010/12/21/132204954/after-dump-what-happens-to-electronic-waste http://www.npr.org/2010/12/21/132204954/after-dump-what-happ... http://news.discovery.com/tech/indias-poor-risk-slow-death-recycling-e-waste.htm http://news.discovery.com/tech/indias-poor-risk-slow-death-r...