6 ms·

Recent resurgence of the "national pride" thing. The forced reinterpretation of the Constitution. Unreasonable hatred towards neighboring countries (China and K

by euske 11y ago

Recent resurgence of the "national pride" thing. The forced reinterpretation of the Constitution. Unreasonable hatred towards neighboring countries (China and Korea in particular). And worst of all, we aren't taught anything about these Japanese atrocities at school. Japan is still enjoying willful ignorance.

sdrothrock 11y ago
> Recent resurgence of the "national pride" thing. I agree with this. > The forced reinterpretation of the Constitution. I agree that this bothers me slightly, but concede that the Japanese government can and should be able to openly modify the constitution. Article 9 isn't and shouldn't be an absolute commandment (assuming that's what you're talking about). > Unreasonable hatred towards neighboring countries (China and Korea in particular). Outside of extremist groups, I haven't really seen this at all. It might be more accurate to say that the government, rather than the citizens, are drumming up an opposition to push things through politically. If anything, it seems like more people from neighboring countries carry a grudge against Japan than vice versa -- without getting into a talk about whether it's justified or should be forgotten by now etc. > worst of all, we aren't taught anything about these Japanese atrocities at school. This may vary depending on your curriculum and your age, especially if you're in the ゆとり教育世代. [Edit to add: Just like American adults don't really go around talking about American atrocities in daily life, Japanese people don't do that either, in my experience. But when we have had occasions to talk about that kind of thing (say, discussions about recent history, politics, Korea, or China), people have seemed to be generally knowledgeable.] I was teaching and watching classes up til a few years ago and did hear some things about the atrocities in junior high and know that most people heard more in high school, which makes sense as part of age-appropriate curriculum creation to me. I don't think Japan is anywhere near taking a step toward the Imperial Japan in the article. Vocal and consistent opposition to attempts to get around Article 9 and that people are trying to encourage Chinese tourism in fact make me believe the opposite; Japan is (very) slowly trying to move toward a more open and global state.
- gizmo686 11y ago
  >ゆとり教育世代 For those not familiar with Japanese educational policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutori_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutori_education
markburns 11y ago
> And worst of all, we aren't taught anything about these Japanese atrocities at school. This bit is probably the hardest part. I have spoken to many people here in Japan who downplay, or justify, or say it is so long ago, or say that Japan has forgiven America, so naturally Korea and China must forgive Japan. "We've apologised, what more do they want? They are all crazy." ad infinitum. Or simply people that deny anything happened or think that I must hate Japan to even mention things like this. Then you have politicians stirring things up and denying it etc. What I think anyone really wants is simple plain humble acceptance of what happened. It seems the apology carries so much weight in Japan that that should just be the end of it, and everything should be forgotten. Except that seems to be a purely uniquely Japanese way of looking at the world, and doesn't really translate to other cultures. Germany and the US don't sweep under the carpet the Atom bomb or the concentration camps, and likewise Japanese people should be taught about Nanking, the POWs, Unit 731 etc. Just so that the average Japanese citizen doesn't come across on the world stage as wilfully ignorant or incredibly crass and insensitive. Ideally it could lead to more than this and improved relations in the area, but at the very least it would be wonderful for Japanese people to not unintentionally be saying really hurtful things to still living victims of these events. I really wish they would teach that stuff in incredible detail. _Then_ maybe not talk about it, or sweep it under the carpet or whatever. This national pride combined with ignorance is such a toxic combination. Edit: Just to add to this. What I think is particularly tragic, is how specifically considerate and compassionate the average Japanese person is. It is terrible that on average, such compassionate, considerate people can end up seeming so wilfully ignorant or even hateful. When I don't believe this to be the case.
- jpatokal 11y ago
  Japan has apologized repeatedly, paid significant war reparations and signed peace treaties where both South Korea and China essentially agreed to treat the case as closed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements... Also, the vast majority of Japanese school books do cover the war in unflinching detail; however, unlike China and South Korea, Japan approves a whole range of school books, which have widely varying views. There are Communist textbooks, pro-North Korean textbooks and, yes, far-right textbooks. One particular series, which led to riots and violence in 2005, ended up being used by 0.039% of Japan's schools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_cont... The reason the issue lives on is in very large part because, for political reasons, China and South Korea refuse to let it die. This doesn't excuse the occasional Japanese right-wing nutjob denying anything happened etc, but then again, we don't blame Germany when some random neo-Nazi targets a synagogue.

by euske 11y ago

sdrothrock 11y ago

> Recent resurgence of the "national pride" thing. I agree with this. > The forced reinterpretation of the Constitution. I agree that this bothers me slightly, but concede that the Japanese government can and should be able to openly modify the constitution. Article 9 isn't and shouldn't be an absolute commandment (assuming that's what you're talking about). > Unreasonable hatred towards neighboring countries (China and Korea in particular). Outside of extremist groups, I haven't really seen this at all. It might be more accurate to say that the government, rather than the citizens, are drumming up an opposition to push things through politically. If anything, it seems like more people from neighboring countries carry a grudge against Japan than vice versa -- without getting into a talk about whether it's justified or should be forgotten by now etc. > worst of all, we aren't taught anything about these Japanese atrocities at school. This may vary depending on your curriculum and your age, especially if you're in the ゆとり教育世代. [Edit to add: Just like American adults don't really go around talking about American atrocities in daily life, Japanese people don't do that either, in my experience. But when we have had occasions to talk about that kind of thing (say, discussions about recent history, politics, Korea, or China), people have seemed to be generally knowledgeable.] I was teaching and watching classes up til a few years ago and did hear some things about the atrocities in junior high and know that most people heard more in high school, which makes sense as part of age-appropriate curriculum creation to me. I don't think Japan is anywhere near taking a step toward the Imperial Japan in the article. Vocal and consistent opposition to attempts to get around Article 9 and that people are trying to encourage Chinese tourism in fact make me believe the opposite; Japan is (very) slowly trying to move toward a more open and global state.

gizmo686 11y ago
>ゆとり教育世代 For those not familiar with Japanese educational policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutori_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutori_education

markburns 11y ago

> And worst of all, we aren't taught anything about these Japanese atrocities at school. This bit is probably the hardest part. I have spoken to many people here in Japan who downplay, or justify, or say it is so long ago, or say that Japan has forgiven America, so naturally Korea and China must forgive Japan. "We've apologised, what more do they want? They are all crazy." ad infinitum. Or simply people that deny anything happened or think that I must hate Japan to even mention things like this. Then you have politicians stirring things up and denying it etc. What I think anyone really wants is simple plain humble acceptance of what happened. It seems the apology carries so much weight in Japan that that should just be the end of it, and everything should be forgotten. Except that seems to be a purely uniquely Japanese way of looking at the world, and doesn't really translate to other cultures. Germany and the US don't sweep under the carpet the Atom bomb or the concentration camps, and likewise Japanese people should be taught about Nanking, the POWs, Unit 731 etc. Just so that the average Japanese citizen doesn't come across on the world stage as wilfully ignorant or incredibly crass and insensitive. Ideally it could lead to more than this and improved relations in the area, but at the very least it would be wonderful for Japanese people to not unintentionally be saying really hurtful things to still living victims of these events. I really wish they would teach that stuff in incredible detail. _Then_ maybe not talk about it, or sweep it under the carpet or whatever. This national pride combined with ignorance is such a toxic combination. Edit: Just to add to this. What I think is particularly tragic, is how specifically considerate and compassionate the average Japanese person is. It is terrible that on average, such compassionate, considerate people can end up seeming so wilfully ignorant or even hateful. When I don't believe this to be the case.

jpatokal 11y ago
Japan has apologized repeatedly, paid significant war reparations and signed peace treaties where both South Korea and China essentially agreed to treat the case as closed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements... Also, the vast majority of Japanese school books do cover the war in unflinching detail; however, unlike China and South Korea, Japan approves a whole range of school books, which have widely varying views. There are Communist textbooks, pro-North Korean textbooks and, yes, far-right textbooks. One particular series, which led to riots and violence in 2005, ended up being used by 0.039% of Japan's schools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_cont... The reason the issue lives on is in very large part because, for political reasons, China and South Korea refuse to let it die. This doesn't excuse the occasional Japanese right-wing nutjob denying anything happened etc, but then again, we don't blame Germany when some random neo-Nazi targets a synagogue.