4 ms·

So what? We probably also have a legal right to walk up to random people in the mall and tell them to go fuck themselves. But why would we? There is a police p

by jqm 11y ago

So what? We probably also have a legal right to walk up to random people in the mall and tell them to go fuck themselves. But why would we? There is a police problem in the country sure. A startling proportion of police are probably abusive, racist, violent, power hungry and probably stupid to boot. They are maybe often lazy and dishonest and protected by corrupt unions. But how does flipping them off make them any less so or do anything in any way to improve the situation? Here's the bottom line.. Police officers are people too. They have a pretty tough job and see a lot of trash. So they likely are a bit jaded already. Cut them a break and treat them with civility. Work in your community to insure that police act civilly as well (or else find other professions). Basic manners on all sides are an important feature of human relations that seems to be forgotten about in the modern world.

eropple 11y ago
> Cut them a break and treat them with civility. Nobody with the power to kill citizens with impunity deserves a break of any kind. That policing is not the most heavily scrutinized job in America is a bug, and while I believe you have good intentions in entreating that we treat them nicely, I think that the systemic failures of their culture and their practice have demonstrated that, if anything, we should be doing the exact opposite. I don't assume a cop is going to hassle me, but I'm a well-to-do white male and I do know how to both play the game and how to correctly assert my legal rights, just in case. I do assume that that cop will hassle any number of my friends without those check-marks of privilege and foreknowledge, because, systematically, they do exactly that. That makes more than the barest of civility a very big ask.
- jqm 11y ago
  Oh, don't misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting bad cop behavior should be "cut a break". I'm just saying cops are humans... just like you and I. For this alone they are worth a certain measure of respect. Also, they have job that requires them to interface with human trash for much of their working day. Although in a perfect world it shouldn't, this might tend to make someone a little grumpy and hostile toward others. I'm not excusing the fact that the job probably attracts more than it's share of psychopathic bullies. Nor any of the misdeeds. But in order to improve the situation we should take a realistic and humane look at what cops are seeing. And we should demand the type of cops that take exactly the same approach towards their "clients".
  - eropple 11y ago
    Only your last sentence rings at all true to me; lots of people deal with very bad individuals every day, but somehow only the ones whose sworn duty is to serve and protect are the ones killing people over it. I'll consider more than the barest of civility appropriate when they as a culture stop killing people for the temerity to exist while being black. This isn't a "well, if we're nicer to them, they'll stop hurting people" sort of thing. Expecting the disempowered to be humane towards those with power is at best unrealistic and at worst damaging. Should cops--the people in power--start acting in aggregate like reasonable human beings, then the people without power--everyone else, but especially minorities and the poor--won't have a reason to think that cops are likely to be dangerous to them. The change literally-literally must start with the people with guns and badges, and frankly calls to the contrary feel like useful idiocy.
    - jqm 11y ago
      Probably some cops say (or at least secretly think) exactly the same kinds of things you are saying about black people. "If they would just act right... until then, fuck em. They don't deserve respect." What exactly does acting rudely or disrespectfully in either case achieve?
      - eropple 11y ago
        The cops have guns and the power to imprison or kill you without even the pretense of a committed crime. The power imbalance literally-literally leaves it in their hands. But being nice to them won't keep your head from intercepting a Maglite should you be of the wrong skin color. So why should the powerless listen to you at all? Why should I not recognize the pervasive damage that is being caused and provide support (in the form of social approval) to them? Every action that any person ever takes is inherently political in the social context. What you advocate hurts the people least able to afford that hurt, and that's really troubling. Calling for niceties and "respect" to the members of a culture that can't stop killing fellow Americans, while sounding very nice, is tantamount to calling for better servile behaviour. And maybe that doesn't trouble you, but it does trouble me.
justwannasing 11y ago
Your first two paragraphs are BS. Your last paragraph is unbridled truth.

by jqm 11y ago

eropple 11y ago

> Cut them a break and treat them with civility. Nobody with the power to kill citizens with impunity deserves a break of any kind. That policing is not the most heavily scrutinized job in America is a bug, and while I believe you have good intentions in entreating that we treat them nicely, I think that the systemic failures of their culture and their practice have demonstrated that, if anything, we should be doing the exact opposite. I don't assume a cop is going to hassle me, but I'm a well-to-do white male and I do know how to both play the game and how to correctly assert my legal rights, just in case. I do assume that that cop will hassle any number of my friends without those check-marks of privilege and foreknowledge, because, systematically, they do exactly that. That makes more than the barest of civility a very big ask.

jqm 11y ago
Oh, don't misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting bad cop behavior should be "cut a break". I'm just saying cops are humans... just like you and I. For this alone they are worth a certain measure of respect. Also, they have job that requires them to interface with human trash for much of their working day. Although in a perfect world it shouldn't, this might tend to make someone a little grumpy and hostile toward others. I'm not excusing the fact that the job probably attracts more than it's share of psychopathic bullies. Nor any of the misdeeds. But in order to improve the situation we should take a realistic and humane look at what cops are seeing. And we should demand the type of cops that take exactly the same approach towards their "clients".
- eropple 11y ago
  Only your last sentence rings at all true to me; lots of people deal with very bad individuals every day, but somehow only the ones whose sworn duty is to serve and protect are the ones killing people over it. I'll consider more than the barest of civility appropriate when they as a culture stop killing people for the temerity to exist while being black. This isn't a "well, if we're nicer to them, they'll stop hurting people" sort of thing. Expecting the disempowered to be humane towards those with power is at best unrealistic and at worst damaging. Should cops--the people in power--start acting in aggregate like reasonable human beings, then the people without power--everyone else, but especially minorities and the poor--won't have a reason to think that cops are likely to be dangerous to them. The change literally-literally must start with the people with guns and badges, and frankly calls to the contrary feel like useful idiocy.
  - jqm 11y ago
    Probably some cops say (or at least secretly think) exactly the same kinds of things you are saying about black people. "If they would just act right... until then, fuck em. They don't deserve respect." What exactly does acting rudely or disrespectfully in either case achieve?
    - eropple 11y ago
      The cops have guns and the power to imprison or kill you without even the pretense of a committed crime. The power imbalance literally-literally leaves it in their hands. But being nice to them won't keep your head from intercepting a Maglite should you be of the wrong skin color. So why should the powerless listen to you at all? Why should I not recognize the pervasive damage that is being caused and provide support (in the form of social approval) to them? Every action that any person ever takes is inherently political in the social context. What you advocate hurts the people least able to afford that hurt, and that's really troubling. Calling for niceties and "respect" to the members of a culture that can't stop killing fellow Americans, while sounding very nice, is tantamount to calling for better servile behaviour. And maybe that doesn't trouble you, but it does trouble me.

justwannasing 11y ago

Your first two paragraphs are BS. Your last paragraph is unbridled truth.