4 ms·

I .. disagree. Disclaimer: Not my native language, I might miss nuances and misinterpret things - and I certainly come from a different belief system, a differ

I .. disagree. Disclaimer: Not my native language, I might miss nuances and misinterpret things - and I certainly come from a different belief system, a different culture. For me though, this article raised important questions - but those were nearly impossibly hard to read due to the constant 'I served in Iraq' analogies. I flagged the submission for that. I don't believe that Iraq was a 'Good Idea™' and I have zero respect for someone that was there. I did like the parts about his unit being somewhat less disconnected from the local population, but .. if you start at -100 you can't get too high, really. For me, these analogies were, while probably important for the author, utterly distracting, annoying and disgusting. If you want to talk about the police in the USA, do that. The time served in Iraq is not relevant and - at least for this person right here - doesn't lend you credibility or sympathy either. For me, those things don't belong together. It feels like a cheap "I'm a veteran, here's what I say" thing (and the notion of "veterans" is already quiiiiite hard to get over here).

angrybits 11y ago
> I have zero respect for someone that was there Serving isn't for everyone, and I don't expect you to understand it if you haven't. But either way your attitude is as discourteous as it is pretentious, and you have added zero value to the conversation by shooting your mouth off on the subject. America's fighting forces will continue to carry out their mission, day in and day out, just like they always have. I have a feeling they'll do just fine without the backing of the German nerd contingent.
- toolsadmin 11y ago
  Well you sure didn't slober when you sucked your heroes off. Not your first time I'm guessing? To people in Iraq it was an occupational force of thugs. Hence, I wonder if vast majority of the world thought the same way. Bush didn't even get UN mandate to be there.
- Intermernet 11y ago
  > America's fighting forces will continue to carry out their mission, day in and day out, just like they always have. What is the mission? And why is it taking an infinitely long time to carry out?
  - angrybits 11y ago
    It changes over time, and ranges anywhere from the use of force to achieve an objective all the way to simply humanitarian. Sometimes a mix. (delivery of supplies + security) The world is not in a steady state, so as our needs change over time, so does the mission.
antod 11y ago
It seems like you did miss the main point of the Iraq angle. The author was drawing an explicit parallel with the failed tactics and attitudes used early on in Iraq with the same tactics and attitudes now being copied by police in the US. The US military learnt it's lesson and changed its approach - he's wanting police to learn the same lesson. He thought it worth mentioning not for bragging rights but because he'd personally experienced being both sides of a raid, as well as experiencing the relevant long term effectiveness of both sets of tactics. I felt it was a useful insightful contrast for someone like me who lives somewhere far removed from the US, Iraq, armed police, veteran worship culture, or anything military at all.
cjslep 11y ago
> I don't believe that Iraq was a 'Good Idea™' and I have zero respect for someone that was there. It isn't like members of the armed forces get a vote or a choice on the matter of whether they got to go to Iraq. I have coworkers that went into the National Guard to help out their home state in cases of natural disasters (hurricanes, floods, etc), but unwillingly wound up in Iraq. Blindly holding such a large group of people with zero respect because of a reason out of their control seems to toe a moral line that would make even racism seem reasonable (hence why you may draw extremely negative responses for saying this). > For me, these analogies were, while probably important for the author, utterly distracting, annoying and disgusting. If you want to talk about the police in the USA, do that. The time served in Iraq is not relevant [...] Then you are honestly missing the entire point of the article: 1) That the domestic police force's mode of operation is just as bad as the military force's mode of operation at its worst, and 2) The military force wizened up and changed tactics to better succeed in its larger strategy; so while the domestic police force is not currently changing, it should not be impossible for the police force to follow suit. It seems entirely reasonable that a group of people allowed to use force on their own community would do so with more caution than a group of people using force on other/external communities. I would argue that drawing comparisons between the two is relevant and not distracting. Having someone like Alex Horton do so is insightful even if not a statistically representative sample size.

angrybits 11y ago

> I have zero respect for someone that was there Serving isn't for everyone, and I don't expect you to understand it if you haven't. But either way your attitude is as discourteous as it is pretentious, and you have added zero value to the conversation by shooting your mouth off on the subject. America's fighting forces will continue to carry out their mission, day in and day out, just like they always have. I have a feeling they'll do just fine without the backing of the German nerd contingent.

toolsadmin 11y ago
Well you sure didn't slober when you sucked your heroes off. Not your first time I'm guessing? To people in Iraq it was an occupational force of thugs. Hence, I wonder if vast majority of the world thought the same way. Bush didn't even get UN mandate to be there.
Intermernet 11y ago
> America's fighting forces will continue to carry out their mission, day in and day out, just like they always have. What is the mission? And why is it taking an infinitely long time to carry out?
- angrybits 11y ago
  It changes over time, and ranges anywhere from the use of force to achieve an objective all the way to simply humanitarian. Sometimes a mix. (delivery of supplies + security) The world is not in a steady state, so as our needs change over time, so does the mission.

antod 11y ago

It seems like you did miss the main point of the Iraq angle. The author was drawing an explicit parallel with the failed tactics and attitudes used early on in Iraq with the same tactics and attitudes now being copied by police in the US. The US military learnt it's lesson and changed its approach - he's wanting police to learn the same lesson. He thought it worth mentioning not for bragging rights but because he'd personally experienced being both sides of a raid, as well as experiencing the relevant long term effectiveness of both sets of tactics. I felt it was a useful insightful contrast for someone like me who lives somewhere far removed from the US, Iraq, armed police, veteran worship culture, or anything military at all.

cjslep 11y ago

> I don't believe that Iraq was a 'Good Idea™' and I have zero respect for someone that was there. It isn't like members of the armed forces get a vote or a choice on the matter of whether they got to go to Iraq. I have coworkers that went into the National Guard to help out their home state in cases of natural disasters (hurricanes, floods, etc), but unwillingly wound up in Iraq. Blindly holding such a large group of people with zero respect because of a reason out of their control seems to toe a moral line that would make even racism seem reasonable (hence why you may draw extremely negative responses for saying this). > For me, these analogies were, while probably important for the author, utterly distracting, annoying and disgusting. If you want to talk about the police in the USA, do that. The time served in Iraq is not relevant [...] Then you are honestly missing the entire point of the article: 1) That the domestic police force's mode of operation is just as bad as the military force's mode of operation at its worst, and 2) The military force wizened up and changed tactics to better succeed in its larger strategy; so while the domestic police force is not currently changing, it should not be impossible for the police force to follow suit. It seems entirely reasonable that a group of people allowed to use force on their own community would do so with more caution than a group of people using force on other/external communities. I would argue that drawing comparisons between the two is relevant and not distracting. Having someone like Alex Horton do so is insightful even if not a statistically representative sample size.