7 ms·

> enough white people regard black people being shot by the police as a positive outcome rather than a negative one Could you elaborate? "Enough" for what?

by an_ko 11y ago

aikah 11y ago
black people = thugs in most white people's minds. Of course there is always one black guy they like,"but he's different hey ?"...
- an_ko 11y ago
  [citation needed]
  - DanBC 11y ago
    https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
    - an_ko 11y ago
      While possibly helpful for assessing one's own biases, that site seems to provide no collective stats, and that's what's in question here.
DanBC 11y ago
"Enough" in that you have people on HN saying pretty much that most of the black people who get shot and killed by police deserved it and that black people are stupid violent criminals so it's no wonder they get killed so often, and that if only they were docile and compliant in the face of police harassment they wouldn't get shot so much. It's fucking weird seeing that stuff on HN, and it's scary to think how those thoughts look in other less restricted forums. It's the 21st centuary and there's only just a US president prepared to say "black lives matter". There have been a string of killings by police of innocent black people, and juries refuse to convict.
- ams6110 11y ago
  There's a difference between the way you phrase it and the objective fact that most people who are killed by police are in fact people with lengthy and often violent criminal histories. Not all, of course. But most.
  - pessimizer 11y ago
    Do you have a citation for that? Not that I dispute it, but I don't know it to be true either.
    - ams6110 11y ago
      Who The Police Shoot A vast majority of the people shot by the police in 2011 were men between the ages 25 and 40 who had histories of crime. Overall, people shot by the police were much older than the typical first-time arrestee. A significant number of the people wounded and killed by the authorities were over fifty, some in their eighties. In 2011, the police shot two 15-year-olds, and a girl who was 16. The police shot, in 2011, about 50 women, most of whom were armed with knives and had histories of emotional distress. Overall, about a quarter of those shot were either mentally ill and/or suicidal. Many of these were "suicide-by-cop" cases. Most police shooting victims were armed with handguns. The next most common weapon involved vehicles (used as weapons), followed by knives (and other sharp objects), shotguns, and rifles. Very few of these people carried assault weapons, and a small percentage were unarmed. About 50 subjects were armed with BB-guns, pellet guns or replica firearms. The situations that brought police shooters and their targets together included domestic and other disturbances; crimes in progress such as robbery, assault and carjacking; the execution of arrest warrants; drug raids; gang activities; routine traffic stops; car chases; and standoff and hostage events. Women make up about 15 percent of the nation's uniformed police services. During 2011, about 25 female police officers wounded or killed civilians. None of these officers had shot anyone in the past. While the vast majority of police officers never fire their guns in the line of duty, 15 officers who did shoot someone in 2011, had shot at least one person before. (This figure is probably low because police departments don't like to report such statistics.) Most police shootings involved members of police departments followed by sheriff's deputies, the state police, and federal officers. These shootings took place in big cities, suburban areas, towns, and in rural areas. Big city shootings comprised about half of these violent confrontations in 2011. http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2012/01/police-involved-shootings-2011-annual.html http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2012/01/police-involv...
pjc50 11y ago
Enough that whenever it happens, there are plenty of people keen to manufacture justifications for it being the dead person's fault. If hundreds of Americans were being shot every year by terrorists, there would be an outcry and a demand to invade somewhere. If hundreds of Americans were being killed every year by a faulty product or staff negligence, there would be legal outcry and improved procedures and quality control. Reducing deaths caused by police requires recognising that every death caused by a police gun - which includes those of violent people with criminal records - as a failure of process.
- ams6110 11y ago
  In the US, most homicide victims are killed by another person of their own race, not by the police. This is true for whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. for the simple fact that races tend to segregate into neighborhoods. For all I know it's also true for non-racial demographics such as homosexuals. Simply put, if you're killed, it's most likely by someone you are related to if not by family then by proximity. This doesn't get a lot of media attention or create a lot of outrage, even though the numbers are much, much higher than police involved killings. Just to take one example: Hundreds of people kill each other every year in cities like Chicago. Thousands more sustain non-fatal injuries. Sometimes dozens are killed in a single weekend. Homicides and shootings are way up, but police involved shootings by contrast are way down. This does get some local media attention but there is comparatively little national media or public outrage over this compared to relative few killed in police involved shootings. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-superintendent-garry-mccarthy-city-club-met-20150520-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-superin... We have a much bigger problem with citizens killing each other than with police killing citizens. That's not to say that police are perfect, or not often overzealous, or that they shouldn't be held to a higher standard. But the reality is not nearly what is being portrayed by many media and political organizations.
  - jowiar 11y ago
    Killings by police, though, are killings ostensibly on our behalf. The blood is on our hands.
  - 11y ago

> enough white people regard black people being shot by the police as a positive outcome rather than a negative one Could you elaborate? "Enough" for what?

by an_ko 11y ago

> enough white people regard black people being shot by the police as a positive outcome rather than a negative one Could you elaborate? "Enough" for what?

aikah 11y ago

black people = thugs in most white people's minds. Of course there is always one black guy they like,"but he's different hey ?"...

an_ko 11y ago
[citation needed]
- DanBC 11y ago
  https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
  - an_ko 11y ago
    While possibly helpful for assessing one's own biases, that site seems to provide no collective stats, and that's what's in question here.

DanBC 11y ago

"Enough" in that you have people on HN saying pretty much that most of the black people who get shot and killed by police deserved it and that black people are stupid violent criminals so it's no wonder they get killed so often, and that if only they were docile and compliant in the face of police harassment they wouldn't get shot so much. It's fucking weird seeing that stuff on HN, and it's scary to think how those thoughts look in other less restricted forums. It's the 21st centuary and there's only just a US president prepared to say "black lives matter". There have been a string of killings by police of innocent black people, and juries refuse to convict.

ams6110 11y ago
There's a difference between the way you phrase it and the objective fact that most people who are killed by police are in fact people with lengthy and often violent criminal histories. Not all, of course. But most.
- pessimizer 11y ago
  Do you have a citation for that? Not that I dispute it, but I don't know it to be true either.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    Who The Police Shoot A vast majority of the people shot by the police in 2011 were men between the ages 25 and 40 who had histories of crime. Overall, people shot by the police were much older than the typical first-time arrestee. A significant number of the people wounded and killed by the authorities were over fifty, some in their eighties. In 2011, the police shot two 15-year-olds, and a girl who was 16. The police shot, in 2011, about 50 women, most of whom were armed with knives and had histories of emotional distress. Overall, about a quarter of those shot were either mentally ill and/or suicidal. Many of these were "suicide-by-cop" cases. Most police shooting victims were armed with handguns. The next most common weapon involved vehicles (used as weapons), followed by knives (and other sharp objects), shotguns, and rifles. Very few of these people carried assault weapons, and a small percentage were unarmed. About 50 subjects were armed with BB-guns, pellet guns or replica firearms. The situations that brought police shooters and their targets together included domestic and other disturbances; crimes in progress such as robbery, assault and carjacking; the execution of arrest warrants; drug raids; gang activities; routine traffic stops; car chases; and standoff and hostage events. Women make up about 15 percent of the nation's uniformed police services. During 2011, about 25 female police officers wounded or killed civilians. None of these officers had shot anyone in the past. While the vast majority of police officers never fire their guns in the line of duty, 15 officers who did shoot someone in 2011, had shot at least one person before. (This figure is probably low because police departments don't like to report such statistics.) Most police shootings involved members of police departments followed by sheriff's deputies, the state police, and federal officers. These shootings took place in big cities, suburban areas, towns, and in rural areas. Big city shootings comprised about half of these violent confrontations in 2011. http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2012/01/police-involved-shootings-2011-annual.html http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2012/01/police-involv...

pjc50 11y ago

Enough that whenever it happens, there are plenty of people keen to manufacture justifications for it being the dead person's fault. If hundreds of Americans were being shot every year by terrorists, there would be an outcry and a demand to invade somewhere. If hundreds of Americans were being killed every year by a faulty product or staff negligence, there would be legal outcry and improved procedures and quality control. Reducing deaths caused by police requires recognising that every death caused by a police gun - which includes those of violent people with criminal records - as a failure of process.

ams6110 11y ago
In the US, most homicide victims are killed by another person of their own race, not by the police. This is true for whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. for the simple fact that races tend to segregate into neighborhoods. For all I know it's also true for non-racial demographics such as homosexuals. Simply put, if you're killed, it's most likely by someone you are related to if not by family then by proximity. This doesn't get a lot of media attention or create a lot of outrage, even though the numbers are much, much higher than police involved killings. Just to take one example: Hundreds of people kill each other every year in cities like Chicago. Thousands more sustain non-fatal injuries. Sometimes dozens are killed in a single weekend. Homicides and shootings are way up, but police involved shootings by contrast are way down. This does get some local media attention but there is comparatively little national media or public outrage over this compared to relative few killed in police involved shootings. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-superintendent-garry-mccarthy-city-club-met-20150520-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-superin... We have a much bigger problem with citizens killing each other than with police killing citizens. That's not to say that police are perfect, or not often overzealous, or that they shouldn't be held to a higher standard. But the reality is not nearly what is being portrayed by many media and political organizations.
- jowiar 11y ago
  Killings by police, though, are killings ostensibly on our behalf. The blood is on our hands.
- 11y ago