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What prevents JL from creating a Founders at Work 2 is what prevents 99% of founders from creating their first startup. For most founders the situation is far

by staunch 11y ago

What prevents JL from creating a Founders at Work 2 is what prevents 99% of founders from creating their first startup. For most founders the situation is far bleaker though. There's an incredible amount of sacrifice required to even attempt a startup if you have a family, can't get investors, and all your friends and family are poor people. And yet this is what most people face today. Determination alone really isn't enough. You need help. The one thing all successful founders have in common is that they found help early on from people in a position to help.

david927 11y ago
And since, "If your ideas are any good, you’ll have to ram them down people’s throats," those people almost certainly didn't get that initial help from the idea itself. They got it from who they were. In other words, if you don't have rich friends or family, or you don't have a 'pedigree' based on where you went to school, be very careful because you're in for a bad time. I'm not saying it's impossible (because the lottery is also not impossible), I'm just saying I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
- S4M 11y ago
  On the other hand, it's fairly possible for an engineer to take some time off to build something he believes in. In the worse case, what would have been lost is the salary from that time spent on building something that didn't take off, but since the job market for engineers is good, it's definitely affordable.
- jordigg 11y ago
  It may take you longer to get there, but you can do it without rich families, good connections and "pedigree". I've proven it myself many times. Just want something and work your ass off.
  - david927 11y ago
    I'm not saying it's impossible (because the lottery is also not impossible), I'm just saying I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
    - pm 11y ago
      Being an entrepreneur isn't an imposition.
      - juliangregorian 11y ago
        An imposition? What do you mean? That nobody's forcing you to do it, or that it isn't an onerous job, especially if you don't have money and family connections?
        pm 11y ago
        It's both. Nobody's forcing you to do it. Anyone who decides to take up such a mantle is going to face obstacles, and the journey will be unique for each person. Some will have it easier than others. If a person thinks it's onerous before they've even started because they don't have x, then I doubt they're cut out for entrepreneurship anyhow. Something that people miss, is that entrepreneurship is not a playing field where score is determined by what one cannot choose, it's an unforgiving mountain we're all trying to scale - there are infinite paths to the summit. What appear to be obvious advantages at the beginning of the journey end up being disadvantages in the middle. What one lacks in money and family connections can be often be balanced with grit and perseverance. Remember what you bring to the table.
      - david927 11y ago
        Yes, yes, no one is forcing you -- but you are being sold a bit, at least in America. And while there's nothing wrong with that, per se, the story you're being sold is that you just need to build a better mouse trap. That story, however, is a lie. What I'm saying is a warning, not a complaint. I'm saying that you'll be told that you can be a hero if you slay the dragon and all you need is a new strategy. But if you look closely you'll notice that some adventurers come from a noble background and have a strategy -- plus a sword and armor. You are a peasant; you don't. The ones that came back, almost exclusively, had that sword and armor. No one, I repeat no one, looked at the Page Rank algorithm and said, "I love the idea! Here's money to prove it." (Remember that statement about having to shove good ideas down people's throats.) No, instead, they looked at Page and Brin and said, "Stanford? Here's money to prove your point." That's the key. Without that reason for people to believe in you irregardless of the idea, you're in for an exponentially harder time. And even if you make it through, saying, "I killed the dragon without armor or sword," it will impress no one. You didn't notice the difference, why would anyone else? It will have been millions of times harder and no one will fucking care. I'm an exception that proves the rule. After years of nosebleeds and broken ribs, my company is poised to explode. And yet it was easily the hardest, loneliest thing I've ever done. Yes, yes, no one is forcing you, but they're also not telling you the whole story. If you, as a sans-culottes, understand what I'm telling you and go to hunt the dragon anyway, God bless you. But I'll repeat what I said above: I wouldn't wish that journey on my worst enemy.
nostromo 11y ago
> You need help. The one thing all successful founders have in common is that they found help early on from people in a position to help. Isn't that exactly what JL and PG have made a career doing?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- wakaflockafliz 11y ago
  Are you saying PG/YC is in the business of being charitable? I think that behavior only emerges when the average payout is larger than what they put in..
  - stingrae 11y ago
    How do you explain YC investing in Non-profits like Watsi? There is more to YC than the payout. There is definitely a core goal to help good people build better products. Money just usually follows.
    - wakaflockafliz 11y ago
      Easily explained: TAX DEDUCTIBLE! Sorry, but I am not buying into the theory that "money just follows". That's a sweet pipe dream and all, but not a reality I'm familiar with.
      - landryraccoon 11y ago
        I don't follow. A donation is a net loss even after the tax deduction. There is no profit from funding a non-profit, even if you can take a tax write off. If you want to be cynical, good PR would be a much better explanation than something involving taxes.
- staunch 11y ago
  > Isn't that exactly what JL and PG have made a career doing? Yes, YC was modeled on the help PG received from his friend Julian Weber in creating Viaweb. Weber gave him money, advice, and introductions to other rich people that invested more money. PG wasn't merely determined, he was also helped by powerful people. Without that help it's likely there would not be a YC. No YC, no Airbnb. YC's very reason for existing is probably its most powerful advice and should be considered implicit with all their other advice: you need help.
WalterBright 11y ago
They got up and went looking for help. No help is going to knock on your door while you watch TV inside.
- nwenzel 11y ago
  +1 If anyone is looking for one weird trick to succeed in a startup, get rid of your TV. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't have easy time waster options readily available.
  - randall 11y ago
    My related weird trick is to sleep less. Turns out for me I only need about 6 hours of sleep a night. As I've woken up early I've had a lot more time to build cool things without having to make as many personal sacrifices.
  - Mahn 11y ago
    Now if only we could get rid of HN and Reddit :-)
caseysoftware 11y ago
> The one thing all successful founders have in common is that they found help early on from people in a position to help. Yes, but very rarely did the help come before the proved themselves in some way. They could have gone to the right school, learned the right skills, worked with the right people, gotten involved in the right clubs (on or off campus), took the right job, took the right risk, or any combination of those things. And things tend to multiply. Going to the right school opens doors but so does learning the right skills. And both can lead to the right job working with the right people. The right clubs are hit or miss but can also lead you to the right people. The right risk might put you next to the right person for that one conversation that changes your perspective or path. * Also, every time I said "right" above, it should be in quotes. Because what's right for you on your path isn't necessarily the same for everyone else. I grew up poor but went to a great college. My first couple jobs were mediocre but I worked with some great people. My skills were basic until I got involved in a few meetups/user groups and then had to learn to get better. I worked for a couple terrible startups that burned out quickly but I met great people. They forced me to learn more constantly. Then I turned those skills into something bigger and better as I could. I'm not calling myself "successful" but I have had successes.. and a lot of failures. ;)

by staunch 11y ago

david927 11y ago

And since, "If your ideas are any good, you’ll have to ram them down people’s throats," those people almost certainly didn't get that initial help from the idea itself. They got it from who they were. In other words, if you don't have rich friends or family, or you don't have a 'pedigree' based on where you went to school, be very careful because you're in for a bad time. I'm not saying it's impossible (because the lottery is also not impossible), I'm just saying I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

S4M 11y ago
On the other hand, it's fairly possible for an engineer to take some time off to build something he believes in. In the worse case, what would have been lost is the salary from that time spent on building something that didn't take off, but since the job market for engineers is good, it's definitely affordable.
jordigg 11y ago
It may take you longer to get there, but you can do it without rich families, good connections and "pedigree". I've proven it myself many times. Just want something and work your ass off.
- david927 11y ago
  I'm not saying it's impossible (because the lottery is also not impossible), I'm just saying I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
  - pm 11y ago
    Being an entrepreneur isn't an imposition.
    - juliangregorian 11y ago
      An imposition? What do you mean? That nobody's forcing you to do it, or that it isn't an onerous job, especially if you don't have money and family connections?
      - pm 11y ago
        It's both. Nobody's forcing you to do it. Anyone who decides to take up such a mantle is going to face obstacles, and the journey will be unique for each person. Some will have it easier than others. If a person thinks it's onerous before they've even started because they don't have x, then I doubt they're cut out for entrepreneurship anyhow. Something that people miss, is that entrepreneurship is not a playing field where score is determined by what one cannot choose, it's an unforgiving mountain we're all trying to scale - there are infinite paths to the summit. What appear to be obvious advantages at the beginning of the journey end up being disadvantages in the middle. What one lacks in money and family connections can be often be balanced with grit and perseverance. Remember what you bring to the table.
    - david927 11y ago
      Yes, yes, no one is forcing you -- but you are being sold a bit, at least in America. And while there's nothing wrong with that, per se, the story you're being sold is that you just need to build a better mouse trap. That story, however, is a lie. What I'm saying is a warning, not a complaint. I'm saying that you'll be told that you can be a hero if you slay the dragon and all you need is a new strategy. But if you look closely you'll notice that some adventurers come from a noble background and have a strategy -- plus a sword and armor. You are a peasant; you don't. The ones that came back, almost exclusively, had that sword and armor. No one, I repeat no one, looked at the Page Rank algorithm and said, "I love the idea! Here's money to prove it." (Remember that statement about having to shove good ideas down people's throats.) No, instead, they looked at Page and Brin and said, "Stanford? Here's money to prove your point." That's the key. Without that reason for people to believe in you irregardless of the idea, you're in for an exponentially harder time. And even if you make it through, saying, "I killed the dragon without armor or sword," it will impress no one. You didn't notice the difference, why would anyone else? It will have been millions of times harder and no one will fucking care. I'm an exception that proves the rule. After years of nosebleeds and broken ribs, my company is poised to explode. And yet it was easily the hardest, loneliest thing I've ever done. Yes, yes, no one is forcing you, but they're also not telling you the whole story. If you, as a sans-culottes, understand what I'm telling you and go to hunt the dragon anyway, God bless you. But I'll repeat what I said above: I wouldn't wish that journey on my worst enemy.

nostromo 11y ago

> You need help. The one thing all successful founders have in common is that they found help early on from people in a position to help. Isn't that exactly what JL and PG have made a career doing?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
wakaflockafliz 11y ago
Are you saying PG/YC is in the business of being charitable? I think that behavior only emerges when the average payout is larger than what they put in..
- stingrae 11y ago
  How do you explain YC investing in Non-profits like Watsi? There is more to YC than the payout. There is definitely a core goal to help good people build better products. Money just usually follows.
  - wakaflockafliz 11y ago
    Easily explained: TAX DEDUCTIBLE! Sorry, but I am not buying into the theory that "money just follows". That's a sweet pipe dream and all, but not a reality I'm familiar with.
    - landryraccoon 11y ago
      I don't follow. A donation is a net loss even after the tax deduction. There is no profit from funding a non-profit, even if you can take a tax write off. If you want to be cynical, good PR would be a much better explanation than something involving taxes.
staunch 11y ago
> Isn't that exactly what JL and PG have made a career doing? Yes, YC was modeled on the help PG received from his friend Julian Weber in creating Viaweb. Weber gave him money, advice, and introductions to other rich people that invested more money. PG wasn't merely determined, he was also helped by powerful people. Without that help it's likely there would not be a YC. No YC, no Airbnb. YC's very reason for existing is probably its most powerful advice and should be considered implicit with all their other advice: you need help.

WalterBright 11y ago

They got up and went looking for help. No help is going to knock on your door while you watch TV inside.

nwenzel 11y ago
+1 If anyone is looking for one weird trick to succeed in a startup, get rid of your TV. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't have easy time waster options readily available.
- randall 11y ago
  My related weird trick is to sleep less. Turns out for me I only need about 6 hours of sleep a night. As I've woken up early I've had a lot more time to build cool things without having to make as many personal sacrifices.
- Mahn 11y ago
  Now if only we could get rid of HN and Reddit :-)

caseysoftware 11y ago

> The one thing all successful founders have in common is that they found help early on from people in a position to help. Yes, but very rarely did the help come before the proved themselves in some way. They could have gone to the right school, learned the right skills, worked with the right people, gotten involved in the right clubs (on or off campus), took the right job, took the right risk, or any combination of those things. And things tend to multiply. Going to the right school opens doors but so does learning the right skills. And both can lead to the right job working with the right people. The right clubs are hit or miss but can also lead you to the right people. The right risk might put you next to the right person for that one conversation that changes your perspective or path. * Also, every time I said "right" above, it should be in quotes. Because what's right for you on your path isn't necessarily the same for everyone else. I grew up poor but went to a great college. My first couple jobs were mediocre but I worked with some great people. My skills were basic until I got involved in a few meetups/user groups and then had to learn to get better. I worked for a couple terrible startups that burned out quickly but I met great people. They forced me to learn more constantly. Then I turned those skills into something bigger and better as I could. I'm not calling myself "successful" but I have had successes.. and a lot of failures. ;)