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When I trained lifeguards this was the most important lesson, bar none. I personally have never seen IDR look like 'climbing a ladder' (hands are usually out s

by sago 11y ago

When I trained lifeguards this was the most important lesson, bar none. I personally have never seen IDR look like 'climbing a ladder' (hands are usually out sideways, though I'm not doubting other's more comprehensive experience). But head tilted right back, so the mouth is the highest point of the body, and only the face visible, that's been the key. The nasty thing is that, in an outdoor environment where the water isn't transparent, this means that drowning people are very difficult to spot. Most of my years spent lifeguarding were hours spent counting and memorising people: 28 people in this section, two leaving, three boys with blonde hair horseplaying, twelve girls kicking up splashes, watch for the dark haired girl in green who is bouncing along not swimming, careful of the four people the splashes are obscuring...

tajen 11y ago
Do you really constantly count and succeed to memorize all of them? Would assisted computer recognition of disappearing bodies allow a lifeguard to watch a bigger beach? It seems like people constantly swim outside the dedicated flags, so it could be an improvement.
- qmalxp 11y ago
  A quick Google yielded this: http://www.poseidonsaveslives.com/ http://www.poseidonsaveslives.com/
- sago 11y ago
  I did count okay, and attempted to remember people, especially those I wanted to keep track of: anyone on their own, weak swimming individuals, people who might have their mind elsewhere, etc. A whole count and a count of the groups was enough. But you're right, it changes constantly. It takes concentration. People tend to get in difficulty particularly if they go out in a group (threes are the worst, ime), and the others move away or swim deeper, or come in. So I noticed problems more than once when a group didn't tally ('there were four friends there, where's the other one?') Because of the property I ran, the count was feasible, but on a long beach or a packed facility it probably wouldn't be. We had around 50:1 ratio max. I tried a bunch of stuff with my team, but it was the thing that worked best. There are bits of tech to do some spotting, and there are companies that do 'remote' lifeguarding (i.e. offshore people watching video, with an onsite guard in case something happens). I can't speak to the use of that, because we had state regulations that meant we had specific staffing structure.
Tomte 11y ago
There is a series of videos on Youtube with examples from some big pool. I thought, now I know what to look for, how hard can it be? Turns out, very. I watched twenty videos or so. Not once did I see the guy in trouble before the lifeguard blew the whistle and jumped in. Usually not even after watching him the first few meters swim (and thus limiting the possible area to watch).
- oska 11y ago
  Here is one video [1] from the channel I believe you are referring to. [1] https://youtu.be/4sFuULOY5ik https://youtu.be/4sFuULOY5ik
  - sago 11y ago
    Watch the lifeguard during this. She's covering her area, but stops sweeping it a few seconds into the vid, she looks down, checks back towards the middle, looks away, checks back. She begins to move into space to enter as soon as the kid's ring flips and is in the water as soon as he goes vertical. An excellent bit of guarding, totally exemplary. I'd be very surprised if she didn't mentally note him as a high risk a while before this.
    - Natsu 11y ago
      I've just watched a number of videos from that series. The #1 thing to look for in that pool is tube flips, most of which can be predicted by looking at who is monkeying around with their tube in some strange way. That said, I can't spot anything nearly as fast as the guards do. And the I replay the video, knowing just who to watch and sometimes I'm surprised at how long they've been in the water when the guard finds them. I can't really see the "ladder climbing" referenced elsewhere, but the style of "swimming" that goes on during drowning does stand out after you've seen a few. There were a few times where I thought the person was still swimming at first, especially the kids trying to swim back to their tube and failing, but even then you can sort of see a change in their behavior when instinct takes over and their body just starts jerking around. EDIT: Here's a good example of what I mean. Watch how their swimming suddenly changes when they start drowning and their arms begin thrashing. I actually found this one before the guard whistled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFgOBjk860 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFgOBjk860
agumonkey 11y ago
Counting is a very pragmatic way to help. A little bit like poker.
derefr 11y ago
It sounds like some cameras hooked to face-recognition software would be a good defence-in-depth here. Detect when a face "disappears" for longer than a given interval without leaving the water perimeter, and start an alarm that needs the life-guard's manual override to stop.

by sago 11y ago

tajen 11y ago

Do you really constantly count and succeed to memorize all of them? Would assisted computer recognition of disappearing bodies allow a lifeguard to watch a bigger beach? It seems like people constantly swim outside the dedicated flags, so it could be an improvement.

qmalxp 11y ago
A quick Google yielded this: http://www.poseidonsaveslives.com/ http://www.poseidonsaveslives.com/
sago 11y ago
I did count okay, and attempted to remember people, especially those I wanted to keep track of: anyone on their own, weak swimming individuals, people who might have their mind elsewhere, etc. A whole count and a count of the groups was enough. But you're right, it changes constantly. It takes concentration. People tend to get in difficulty particularly if they go out in a group (threes are the worst, ime), and the others move away or swim deeper, or come in. So I noticed problems more than once when a group didn't tally ('there were four friends there, where's the other one?') Because of the property I ran, the count was feasible, but on a long beach or a packed facility it probably wouldn't be. We had around 50:1 ratio max. I tried a bunch of stuff with my team, but it was the thing that worked best. There are bits of tech to do some spotting, and there are companies that do 'remote' lifeguarding (i.e. offshore people watching video, with an onsite guard in case something happens). I can't speak to the use of that, because we had state regulations that meant we had specific staffing structure.

Tomte 11y ago

There is a series of videos on Youtube with examples from some big pool. I thought, now I know what to look for, how hard can it be? Turns out, very. I watched twenty videos or so. Not once did I see the guy in trouble before the lifeguard blew the whistle and jumped in. Usually not even after watching him the first few meters swim (and thus limiting the possible area to watch).

oska 11y ago
Here is one video [1] from the channel I believe you are referring to. [1] https://youtu.be/4sFuULOY5ik https://youtu.be/4sFuULOY5ik
- sago 11y ago
  Watch the lifeguard during this. She's covering her area, but stops sweeping it a few seconds into the vid, she looks down, checks back towards the middle, looks away, checks back. She begins to move into space to enter as soon as the kid's ring flips and is in the water as soon as he goes vertical. An excellent bit of guarding, totally exemplary. I'd be very surprised if she didn't mentally note him as a high risk a while before this.
  - Natsu 11y ago
    I've just watched a number of videos from that series. The #1 thing to look for in that pool is tube flips, most of which can be predicted by looking at who is monkeying around with their tube in some strange way. That said, I can't spot anything nearly as fast as the guards do. And the I replay the video, knowing just who to watch and sometimes I'm surprised at how long they've been in the water when the guard finds them. I can't really see the "ladder climbing" referenced elsewhere, but the style of "swimming" that goes on during drowning does stand out after you've seen a few. There were a few times where I thought the person was still swimming at first, especially the kids trying to swim back to their tube and failing, but even then you can sort of see a change in their behavior when instinct takes over and their body just starts jerking around. EDIT: Here's a good example of what I mean. Watch how their swimming suddenly changes when they start drowning and their arms begin thrashing. I actually found this one before the guard whistled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFgOBjk860 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFgOBjk860

agumonkey 11y ago

Counting is a very pragmatic way to help. A little bit like poker.

derefr 11y ago

It sounds like some cameras hooked to face-recognition software would be a good defence-in-depth here. Detect when a face "disappears" for longer than a given interval without leaving the water perimeter, and start an alarm that needs the life-guard's manual override to stop.