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This disturbs me. Basically I think he's saying we should accept flawed and unproven technologies in the name of progress because "eh, any new risk is small com

by nly 11y ago

This disturbs me. Basically I think he's saying we should accept flawed and unproven technologies in the name of progress because "eh, any new risk is small compared to the risks we already face anyways". The difference between a software hack and bad driving is one of responsibility for the risks we face. When people are negligent, we humans like to see people taking responsibility and facing justice. This is why the Jeeps have been recalled: the manufacturer is taking responsibility. Sloppy driving is also transient and hard to predict. It occurs when drivers are stressed, fatigued or distracted. Software flaws are just there. They can be triggered maliciously on-demand. Debating whether self-driving cars are OK, because, hey, they will probably save more lives than they will take gives me chills. What about the emotional detachment this brings? Who will be responsible for these deaths? I'm not exactly sure what I'm trying to put my finger on. It's not so much our inability to calculate probabilities and run statistical models. This is about something more sociological than that.

Aqueous 11y ago
I think he's saying that 'new risk' is replacing an older risk that is greater. But any risk model that doesn't take into account the risks we are replacing or mitigating is useless. If all risk is unacceptable then even mitigating risk is an unachievable goal.
pyre 11y ago
> Who will be responsible for these deaths? There is not always a responsible party. What about the child that runs out into the road, and you have no chance to avoid them? Will you decry self-driving cars when this incident happens to them? Searching for "who is responsible" when the car is self-driving is self-defeating. When the car is driven by an algorithm, the algorithm can be improved. One death could prevent many more. In the case of human drivers, some people refuse to learn from their mistakes, but self-driving cars don't have this issue, and the effects of that learning are much broader than a single driver once the 'lesson' has been learned.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Curiously, back when cars first appeared, people did decry them for hitting children (and adults) even if they ran into the road. It was only after a wide campaign (which also created the term "Jaywalk") that car proponents got the public to reverse their opinion. From an episode of the great podcast 99% Invisible: Much of the public viewed the car as a death machine. One newspaper cartoon even compared the car to Moloch, the god to whom the Ammonites supposedly sacrificed their children. Pedestrian deaths were considered public tragedies. Cities held parades and built monuments in memory of children who had been struck and killed by cars. Mothers of children killed in the streets were given a special white star to honor their loss. http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-76-the-modern-moloch/ http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-76-the-modern-...
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    It happened many years ago, but I'll never forget the time I was coming home from work, buzzing west along Foothill Blvd in the darkening evening, and I turned north toward my neighborhood. A small child jumped out from behind parked cars, directly into my path. I laid my bicycle down, the pedal and frame spraying gravel as I stepped off. She looked at me, not scared so much as lost in thought, and wandered on across the street. I smiled and picked my bike up. It is no wonder that cars kill children, and always have. That child would have died if I had been driving.
p01926 11y ago
But if, over the course of a year, self-driving cars are shown to be even a smidgen safer than manual cars, they are undeniably superior — even if assigning responsibility is a bit more complex. I agree that emotional detachment concerning road fatalities is unacceptable, but you have to be careful that, in your quest for justice, you don't see more road deaths as an acceptable cost.

by nly 11y ago

Aqueous 11y ago

I think he's saying that 'new risk' is replacing an older risk that is greater. But any risk model that doesn't take into account the risks we are replacing or mitigating is useless. If all risk is unacceptable then even mitigating risk is an unachievable goal.

pyre 11y ago

> Who will be responsible for these deaths? There is not always a responsible party. What about the child that runs out into the road, and you have no chance to avoid them? Will you decry self-driving cars when this incident happens to them? Searching for "who is responsible" when the car is self-driving is self-defeating. When the car is driven by an algorithm, the algorithm can be improved. One death could prevent many more. In the case of human drivers, some people refuse to learn from their mistakes, but self-driving cars don't have this issue, and the effects of that learning are much broader than a single driver once the 'lesson' has been learned.

icebraining 11y ago
Curiously, back when cars first appeared, people did decry them for hitting children (and adults) even if they ran into the road. It was only after a wide campaign (which also created the term "Jaywalk") that car proponents got the public to reverse their opinion. From an episode of the great podcast 99% Invisible: Much of the public viewed the car as a death machine. One newspaper cartoon even compared the car to Moloch, the god to whom the Ammonites supposedly sacrificed their children. Pedestrian deaths were considered public tragedies. Cities held parades and built monuments in memory of children who had been struck and killed by cars. Mothers of children killed in the streets were given a special white star to honor their loss. http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-76-the-modern-moloch/ http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-76-the-modern-...
- jessaustin 11y ago
  It happened many years ago, but I'll never forget the time I was coming home from work, buzzing west along Foothill Blvd in the darkening evening, and I turned north toward my neighborhood. A small child jumped out from behind parked cars, directly into my path. I laid my bicycle down, the pedal and frame spraying gravel as I stepped off. She looked at me, not scared so much as lost in thought, and wandered on across the street. I smiled and picked my bike up. It is no wonder that cars kill children, and always have. That child would have died if I had been driving.

p01926 11y ago

But if, over the course of a year, self-driving cars are shown to be even a smidgen safer than manual cars, they are undeniably superior — even if assigning responsibility is a bit more complex. I agree that emotional detachment concerning road fatalities is unacceptable, but you have to be careful that, in your quest for justice, you don't see more road deaths as an acceptable cost.