4 ms·

Living on the ocean floor is infinitely cheaper and more feasible than living in space, is definitely safer, and protects you from all the potential dangers of

by eudox 11y ago

Living on the ocean floor is infinitely cheaper and more feasible than living in space, is definitely safer, and protects you from all the potential dangers of being a one-planet species. Huge asteroid? Just dive into a deep trench. Gamma ray burst? You'll barely detect any radiation under a few meters of water. War? The ocean's a big place and you can hide somewhere and weather a war that might last centuries. The argument that we need space exploration so humanity doesn't go extinct is a ridiculous last-ditch effort to save people's sci-fi fantasies.

pavel_lishin 11y ago
> Huge asteroid? Just dive into a deep trench. How do you move a big settlement into a trench? How do you even move enough submersibles, given little warning?
- eudox 11y ago
  You evacuate people in a big submarine, if you have to. It might not even be necessary, if the impact site is sufficiently far away or the settlement is deep enough. But this is all a moot point, any realistic asteroid that threatens this planet can be blown to smithereens and will probably be spotted unless it's coming perpendicular to the ecliptic.
  - rgawdzik 11y ago
    *citation needed for both being able to blow up an asteroid adequately, and to have a high probability to spot them. At least from my childhood on discovery channel, both are nearly impossible (With respect to seeing the asteroid, it would be too late to make a difference)
    - eudox 11y ago
      You fly some nukes into it. Usually, at this point someone links to some NDT interview with Jon Stewart or something where he says "but if you blow up an asteroid, the chunks will still hit you". Yes, well, if you blow up an asteroid the ratio of surface area to volume will change, and a greater percentage of the asteroid's mass will be
rgawdzik 11y ago
I think it will be easier to convince 10,000 people to live on the moon/mars then to convince 10,000 people to live their lives surrounding pure darkness on the ocean floor.
ChuckMcM 11y ago
I think you are grossly under estimating the challenge of living under the ocean. There have been a number of underwater habitats built (both for science and nominally living quarters) so there are reports you can read on the experience. In particular a 'huge asteroid' could not be mitigated by "diving into a trench", water is incompressible by nature and the impact of an asteroid in the ocean would cause a huge over-pressure event in your habitats, where ever they are, resulting in their destruction. Today, such an impact would destroy every submarine in the same ocean where it hit. Gamma rays would be fine, water does make an excellent radiation blocker. That could be achieved on land by building a structure that was inside the middle of a water reservoir. (imagine a large water storage tank with underwater living space in the middle of it.)
- eudox 11y ago
  >I think you are grossly under estimating the challenge of living under the ocean. There have been a number of underwater habitats built (both for science and nominally living quarters) so there are reports you can read on the experience. I didn't mean to talk about it as if it were a commonplace thing, but compared to settlements on other worlds, it is. I'm not sure what the state of the art is, though as I recall the navy had some habitats in the 70's that they stopped reporting on, so either they closed them down or there's some secret underwater laboratory Deus Ex-style somewhere. >In particular a 'huge asteroid' could not be mitigated by "diving into a trench", water is incompressible by nature and the impact of an asteroid in the ocean would cause a huge over-pressure event in your habitats, where ever they are, resulting in their destruction. Today, such an impact would destroy every submarine in the same ocean where it hit. Well, yes, that is true for submarines. But an undersea settlement would most likely be anchored to the ocean floor and have access to it, mostly for mining, geomethermal power and storage, but you could use it as a shelter in case the main habitat is destroyed. >Gamma rays would be fine, water does make an excellent radiation blocker. That could be achieved on land by building a structure that was inside the middle of a water reservoir. (imagine a large water storage tank with underwater living space in the middle of it.) The ocean has the advantage that it's a single massive body of water, so it's harder to boil all of it off.

by eudox 11y ago

pavel_lishin 11y ago

> Huge asteroid? Just dive into a deep trench. How do you move a big settlement into a trench? How do you even move enough submersibles, given little warning?

eudox 11y ago
You evacuate people in a big submarine, if you have to. It might not even be necessary, if the impact site is sufficiently far away or the settlement is deep enough. But this is all a moot point, any realistic asteroid that threatens this planet can be blown to smithereens and will probably be spotted unless it's coming perpendicular to the ecliptic.
- rgawdzik 11y ago
  *citation needed for both being able to blow up an asteroid adequately, and to have a high probability to spot them. At least from my childhood on discovery channel, both are nearly impossible (With respect to seeing the asteroid, it would be too late to make a difference)
  - eudox 11y ago
    You fly some nukes into it. Usually, at this point someone links to some NDT interview with Jon Stewart or something where he says "but if you blow up an asteroid, the chunks will still hit you". Yes, well, if you blow up an asteroid the ratio of surface area to volume will change, and a greater percentage of the asteroid's mass will be

rgawdzik 11y ago

I think it will be easier to convince 10,000 people to live on the moon/mars then to convince 10,000 people to live their lives surrounding pure darkness on the ocean floor.

ChuckMcM 11y ago

I think you are grossly under estimating the challenge of living under the ocean. There have been a number of underwater habitats built (both for science and nominally living quarters) so there are reports you can read on the experience. In particular a 'huge asteroid' could not be mitigated by "diving into a trench", water is incompressible by nature and the impact of an asteroid in the ocean would cause a huge over-pressure event in your habitats, where ever they are, resulting in their destruction. Today, such an impact would destroy every submarine in the same ocean where it hit. Gamma rays would be fine, water does make an excellent radiation blocker. That could be achieved on land by building a structure that was inside the middle of a water reservoir. (imagine a large water storage tank with underwater living space in the middle of it.)

eudox 11y ago
>I think you are grossly under estimating the challenge of living under the ocean. There have been a number of underwater habitats built (both for science and nominally living quarters) so there are reports you can read on the experience. I didn't mean to talk about it as if it were a commonplace thing, but compared to settlements on other worlds, it is. I'm not sure what the state of the art is, though as I recall the navy had some habitats in the 70's that they stopped reporting on, so either they closed them down or there's some secret underwater laboratory Deus Ex-style somewhere. >In particular a 'huge asteroid' could not be mitigated by "diving into a trench", water is incompressible by nature and the impact of an asteroid in the ocean would cause a huge over-pressure event in your habitats, where ever they are, resulting in their destruction. Today, such an impact would destroy every submarine in the same ocean where it hit. Well, yes, that is true for submarines. But an undersea settlement would most likely be anchored to the ocean floor and have access to it, mostly for mining, geomethermal power and storage, but you could use it as a shelter in case the main habitat is destroyed. >Gamma rays would be fine, water does make an excellent radiation blocker. That could be achieved on land by building a structure that was inside the middle of a water reservoir. (imagine a large water storage tank with underwater living space in the middle of it.) The ocean has the advantage that it's a single massive body of water, so it's harder to boil all of it off.