3 ms·

I can't speak for JetBrains, but from my own experience with Java, Scala and Kotlin, Java interop in Kotlin is a lot better. Scala also offers a lot more featur

I can't speak for JetBrains, but from my own experience with Java, Scala and Kotlin, Java interop in Kotlin is a lot better. Scala also offers a lot more features than Kotlin, which is great for highly experienced programmers, but usually means having to subset Scala for mixed experience teams. Kotlin seems to strike a better balance in terms of approachability and expressiveness, and hence being better suited for teams of different experience levels.

hellofunk 11y ago
Where would Clojure fit into this mix? How would its interop compare with Scala or Kotlin, as well as its performance?
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Clojure devs don't seem to care about performance. Just check how the JVM gets the blame for what is essentially Clojure initialization time. There are some in the community trying to improve the situation, but those are kind of forks like Skummet.
  - KirinDave 11y ago
    > Clojure devs don't seem to care about performance. Ridiculous. Clojure devs care a lot about performance. We just care more about correctness.
  - hellofunk 11y ago
    By "performance" I think you specifically mean "startup time." I think there is a big difference between startup time and runtime performance. It is well-known and fully acknowledged by the Clojure community that starting up a Clojure environment and REPL takes a while. But are you also suggesting there is a problem with Clojure runtime performance?
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      I got that understanding given how performance improvements get postponed version after version. Apparently they will be coming on 1.8.
- pron 11y ago
  Clojure's Java interop is smoother than Scala's, but not as seamless as Kotlin's. Kotlin is modern syntax for the same Java APIs and programming philosophy. Scala and Clojure are radically different languages (from Java as well as each other), for better or worse. Kotlin is a modern Java-replacement, while Clojure and Scala have different strengths and weaknesses. That's not to say that you can't write many applications in any of the four languages, but the "feel" of the codebase would be completely different in Clojure or in Scala, while Kotlin would feel the same (but would be leaner).
- nickbauman 11y ago
  After the start time, In my testing, I have never seen Java code that's faster than it's commensurate Clojure code. I've seen the reverse.

hellofunk 11y ago

Where would Clojure fit into this mix? How would its interop compare with Scala or Kotlin, as well as its performance?

pjmlp 11y ago
Clojure devs don't seem to care about performance. Just check how the JVM gets the blame for what is essentially Clojure initialization time. There are some in the community trying to improve the situation, but those are kind of forks like Skummet.
- KirinDave 11y ago
  > Clojure devs don't seem to care about performance. Ridiculous. Clojure devs care a lot about performance. We just care more about correctness.
- hellofunk 11y ago
  By "performance" I think you specifically mean "startup time." I think there is a big difference between startup time and runtime performance. It is well-known and fully acknowledged by the Clojure community that starting up a Clojure environment and REPL takes a while. But are you also suggesting there is a problem with Clojure runtime performance?
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    I got that understanding given how performance improvements get postponed version after version. Apparently they will be coming on 1.8.
pron 11y ago
Clojure's Java interop is smoother than Scala's, but not as seamless as Kotlin's. Kotlin is modern syntax for the same Java APIs and programming philosophy. Scala and Clojure are radically different languages (from Java as well as each other), for better or worse. Kotlin is a modern Java-replacement, while Clojure and Scala have different strengths and weaknesses. That's not to say that you can't write many applications in any of the four languages, but the "feel" of the codebase would be completely different in Clojure or in Scala, while Kotlin would feel the same (but would be leaner).
nickbauman 11y ago
After the start time, In my testing, I have never seen Java code that's faster than it's commensurate Clojure code. I've seen the reverse.