6 ms·

I don't know if you missed it, but everyone(for the most part) are far better off than 10, 20, 30 etc years ago. I'd say in spite of the politics.

bduerst 11y ago
Not according to the growing wealth gap in the U.S. If you considered the entire globe, then yes, there are growing middle classes in certain Asian and Latin American countries.
- dylanjermiah 11y ago
  Wealth gap is meaningless to me. I care about quality of life, which has dramatically increased.
  - bduerst 11y ago
    Quality of life has increased because of technological advancements. To say that we shouldn't care about the growing wealth gap because the world has smart phones is disingenuous.
    - dylanjermiah 11y ago
      I care little for how much X has compared to Y. I do not see any use for the comparison, other than for media headlines. I'd say that singling out smartphones is disingenuous. The advancement of every industry has caused the lives of almost everyone to increase dramatically, the advancement has also created a lot of wealth, which is also the byproduct of an increase in industry. I've yet to see anyone explain empirically why it's bad that x has more wealth than y. I'm open to being swayed by data.
adevine 11y ago
This is demonstrably false, and speaks of the "tyranny of averages". Yes, worldwide, huge reductions of poverty, largely in Asia, have let to increases. For the average middle class worker in the US, however, things have barely budged in decades. When you take into account growing inequality, and the fact that limited resources (like housing near city centers) will always go to the wealthiest, it's easy to argue the average middle class worker is substantially worse off. See http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-wor... , and this quote: "In fact, in real terms the average wage peaked more than 40 years ago: The $4.03-an-hour rate recorded in January 1973 has the same purchasing power as $22.41 would today."
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >This is demonstrably false No, it isn't "demonstrably false". It's true by almost every metric. >For the average middle class worker in the US, however" Well, if the US middle class were somehow more important than workers elsewhere around the world, this would matter. They aren't, so it doesn't.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  If real waves dropped, you should be able to name a good or service (besides obsolete ones like land lines) which we consume less of today than in the past. In fact, most goods/services should satisfy this. So please, name them.
  - eru 11y ago
    Lard?
  - adevine 11y ago
    Hourly wages have dropped. Household wages have risen, mostly due to women entering the work force.
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago
      Real household income has moved around, but no clear trend: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEHOINUSA672N Real hourly compensation has risen: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPRNFB https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPRNFB Anyone pushing wage numbers is playing a game of hide the salami, and ignoring the trend towards a larger portion of income being given in forms other than money.
      - adevine 11y ago
        Yeah, but "forms other than money" mostly means healthcare, which has skyrocketed - despite the fact that other developed nations with longer live expectancies have much lower healthcare costs. More importantly, though, the Fed graph you show is an average (the real hourly compensation one). With growing inequality, using the average hides the fact the improvement for the median worker is much lower.

bduerst 11y ago

Not according to the growing wealth gap in the U.S. If you considered the entire globe, then yes, there are growing middle classes in certain Asian and Latin American countries.

dylanjermiah 11y ago
Wealth gap is meaningless to me. I care about quality of life, which has dramatically increased.
- bduerst 11y ago
  Quality of life has increased because of technological advancements. To say that we shouldn't care about the growing wealth gap because the world has smart phones is disingenuous.
  - dylanjermiah 11y ago
    I care little for how much X has compared to Y. I do not see any use for the comparison, other than for media headlines. I'd say that singling out smartphones is disingenuous. The advancement of every industry has caused the lives of almost everyone to increase dramatically, the advancement has also created a lot of wealth, which is also the byproduct of an increase in industry. I've yet to see anyone explain empirically why it's bad that x has more wealth than y. I'm open to being swayed by data.

adevine 11y ago

This is demonstrably false, and speaks of the "tyranny of averages". Yes, worldwide, huge reductions of poverty, largely in Asia, have let to increases. For the average middle class worker in the US, however, things have barely budged in decades. When you take into account growing inequality, and the fact that limited resources (like housing near city centers) will always go to the wealthiest, it's easy to argue the average middle class worker is substantially worse off. See http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-wor... , and this quote: "In fact, in real terms the average wage peaked more than 40 years ago: The $4.03-an-hour rate recorded in January 1973 has the same purchasing power as $22.41 would today."

forgetsusername 11y ago
>This is demonstrably false No, it isn't "demonstrably false". It's true by almost every metric. >For the average middle class worker in the US, however" Well, if the US middle class were somehow more important than workers elsewhere around the world, this would matter. They aren't, so it doesn't.
yummyfajitas 11y ago
If real waves dropped, you should be able to name a good or service (besides obsolete ones like land lines) which we consume less of today than in the past. In fact, most goods/services should satisfy this. So please, name them.
- eru 11y ago
  Lard?
- adevine 11y ago
  Hourly wages have dropped. Household wages have risen, mostly due to women entering the work force.
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    Real household income has moved around, but no clear trend: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEHOINUSA672N Real hourly compensation has risen: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPRNFB https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPRNFB Anyone pushing wage numbers is playing a game of hide the salami, and ignoring the trend towards a larger portion of income being given in forms other than money.
    - adevine 11y ago
      Yeah, but "forms other than money" mostly means healthcare, which has skyrocketed - despite the fact that other developed nations with longer live expectancies have much lower healthcare costs. More importantly, though, the Fed graph you show is an average (the real hourly compensation one). With growing inequality, using the average hides the fact the improvement for the median worker is much lower.