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At the time of writing this comment, there is just one comment on this thread complaining about the amount of alcohol in company outings. That comment has been

by noahlt 11y ago

At the time of writing this comment, there is just one comment on this thread complaining about the amount of alcohol in company outings. That comment has been downvoted and is now marked [dead]. The question isn't about each individual's drinking problem. The question is about tech culture's drinking problem. And there's the answer: denial.

kstenerud 11y ago
If you're talking about jbob2000, it's not that he was downvoted; it's that he's been hellbanned for the past 2 months.
- noahlt 11y ago
  Ah, thanks for pointing out my error. My point still stands, though with a little less rhetorical flourish.
  - dang 11y ago
    > My point still stands, though Seems to me this thread doesn't show denial at all. Most conclusions that people draw from particular threads are confirmation bias. That's especially true about the largely random initial state of a thread. Typically they soon fill up with comments contradicting the initial impression. The topic of alcohol has appeared on HN many times, always generates active discussion, and never lacks for critical comments. If anything, anti-alcohol comments tend to dominate slightly.
entelechy0 11y ago
Agree. Personally, I don't drink that much. I've had maybe 4 beers in the last month.
lnanek2 11y ago
And where exactly is the proof that there is some drinking problem in tech? Just people who refuse to drink anything at all and complaining when one a day is healthy? I think it's likely more of a religious problem, or anti-social problem, honestly. If you are too lazy to go drink one with your peers, then you will suffer less social success and poorer network, but I think you are being intentionally lazy, so you reap what you sow.
- steven777400 11y ago
  I have no issue with drinking, but the idea that I need to "go out" with my work peers is annoying. I already spend too much time at work for my liking. I don't want to add on top of it schmoozing time I'm not getting paid for. I recognize the reality of social promotion and I know I'm paying some networking fee for not attending such events, but I still don't want to go. I resist the idea that not going is "lazy", however. "Lazy" is spending the work day reading Randall Munroe's "What if?" instead of working on the outstanding task list (I'll accept guilt on this one). Lazy should not be considered not attending extracurricular work activities.
- joesmo 11y ago
  Some people can't drink because of health reasons. By your logic, they should "suffer less social success and poorer network" and are probably "being intentionally lazy." That's not only illogical, it's downright cruel. Not to mention closed minded.
- dpark 11y ago
  Wow. I am generally pro-alcohol, even occasionally at work in moderation. You are proof that some people have an unhealthy expectation around drinking, though. > If you are too lazy to go drink one with your peers, then you will suffer less social success and poorer network, but I think you are being intentionally lazy, so you reap what you sow. You think that someone is lazy because they don't want to drink? This is nuts. Is someone who doesn't share donuts in the morning also lazy? How about someone who doesn't eat pork? Are they lazy? If this is really your attitude, if you really expect that people should feel obligated to drink, then you have a drinking culture problem.
Alex3917 11y ago
> The question is about tech culture's drinking problem. Since when does tech even have a drinking culture, let alone a drinking problem? All the tech companies I've worked for have had a weekly happy hour where most people have a beer or two, and that's the extent of it. It's nothing like the sports world, where you have guys regularly downing 10 or 15 drinks on the bus or airplane. Or like the entertainment industry, where some of the top people in the field show up to work so shitfaced they can barely even stand up. Or like the mining industry in Siberia, where the nightly entertainment is/was sitting around with a bottle of vodka and some potatoes.
joesmo 11y ago
Last job interview I went to in SF, I was offered whiskey and felt extremely pressured to drink it, mostly because I wanted the job. I've only worked at one place (out of over a dozen or more) in SV/SF that didn't have alcohol on hand and didn't drink in the office. I don't care if people drink, but when you're pushing it onto your employees and former employees, it's a huge problem, and most companies in SV/SF are borderline in the pushy area. Simply offering a drink in a situation where the employer has exceptional power over an employee or potential employee (at work or in an interview for example) makes the employee feel like they need to drink to fit in and not get penalized by the company or the bosses. I think most companies and employers don't think like that because they simply assume everyone likes to drink which is incredibly closed minded. I've known other people, other than myself, who do not drink or cannot drink (because of unrelated health reasons) feel pressured to drink at work. I'm sure someone will say that one can refuse. That is true. One can indeed refuse, but not without negative consequences. One cannot refuse and still keep one's status and place. The refusal will be questioned, as if the refusal is the unnatural position, not the offer. I'm sure it's even more hellish for addicts who have to work at these places, but at least, they're quite used to unfair social stigma.
- vijayr 11y ago
  Same with being vegetarian/vegan. The amount of jokes ("ah,rabbit food" pointing to the salad) gets old and annoying fast. I never understood why people can't just concentrate on their own food/drinks instead of others.
  - joesmo 11y ago
    I find that people always want to know why you're a vegetarian. Honestly, for me, there are a ton of reasons and many of them are not quite dinner table conversations, especially when meat-eaters are involved as it grosses them out.
    - vijayr 11y ago
      Once with a good friend, when she said "rabbit food", I said "dead body" pointing to her chicken. That was childish of me and she obviously didn't like it. So it is possible to make fun and even annoy meat eaters, but it would only end up straining the friendship (or whatever relationship) and nothing will come out of it. The best thing to do is to just smile and keep eating.
gorena 11y ago
What is "tech culture"? I work at a startup and I drink, like, one beer every two weeks - actually, I almost exclusively drink tap water and skim milk. I don't really do "company outings" or hang around though. I'd rather see my girlfriend (who doesn't drink). Maybe the problem is having your friend base being based around "work" instead of around a healthy shared interest, like cycling, a rock climbing gym, soccer, etc.?

by noahlt 11y ago

kstenerud 11y ago

If you're talking about jbob2000, it's not that he was downvoted; it's that he's been hellbanned for the past 2 months.

noahlt 11y ago
Ah, thanks for pointing out my error. My point still stands, though with a little less rhetorical flourish.
- dang 11y ago
  > My point still stands, though Seems to me this thread doesn't show denial at all. Most conclusions that people draw from particular threads are confirmation bias. That's especially true about the largely random initial state of a thread. Typically they soon fill up with comments contradicting the initial impression. The topic of alcohol has appeared on HN many times, always generates active discussion, and never lacks for critical comments. If anything, anti-alcohol comments tend to dominate slightly.

entelechy0 11y ago

Agree. Personally, I don't drink that much. I've had maybe 4 beers in the last month.

lnanek2 11y ago

And where exactly is the proof that there is some drinking problem in tech? Just people who refuse to drink anything at all and complaining when one a day is healthy? I think it's likely more of a religious problem, or anti-social problem, honestly. If you are too lazy to go drink one with your peers, then you will suffer less social success and poorer network, but I think you are being intentionally lazy, so you reap what you sow.

steven777400 11y ago
I have no issue with drinking, but the idea that I need to "go out" with my work peers is annoying. I already spend too much time at work for my liking. I don't want to add on top of it schmoozing time I'm not getting paid for. I recognize the reality of social promotion and I know I'm paying some networking fee for not attending such events, but I still don't want to go. I resist the idea that not going is "lazy", however. "Lazy" is spending the work day reading Randall Munroe's "What if?" instead of working on the outstanding task list (I'll accept guilt on this one). Lazy should not be considered not attending extracurricular work activities.
joesmo 11y ago
Some people can't drink because of health reasons. By your logic, they should "suffer less social success and poorer network" and are probably "being intentionally lazy." That's not only illogical, it's downright cruel. Not to mention closed minded.
dpark 11y ago
Wow. I am generally pro-alcohol, even occasionally at work in moderation. You are proof that some people have an unhealthy expectation around drinking, though. > If you are too lazy to go drink one with your peers, then you will suffer less social success and poorer network, but I think you are being intentionally lazy, so you reap what you sow. You think that someone is lazy because they don't want to drink? This is nuts. Is someone who doesn't share donuts in the morning also lazy? How about someone who doesn't eat pork? Are they lazy? If this is really your attitude, if you really expect that people should feel obligated to drink, then you have a drinking culture problem.

Alex3917 11y ago

> The question is about tech culture's drinking problem. Since when does tech even have a drinking culture, let alone a drinking problem? All the tech companies I've worked for have had a weekly happy hour where most people have a beer or two, and that's the extent of it. It's nothing like the sports world, where you have guys regularly downing 10 or 15 drinks on the bus or airplane. Or like the entertainment industry, where some of the top people in the field show up to work so shitfaced they can barely even stand up. Or like the mining industry in Siberia, where the nightly entertainment is/was sitting around with a bottle of vodka and some potatoes.

joesmo 11y ago

Last job interview I went to in SF, I was offered whiskey and felt extremely pressured to drink it, mostly because I wanted the job. I've only worked at one place (out of over a dozen or more) in SV/SF that didn't have alcohol on hand and didn't drink in the office. I don't care if people drink, but when you're pushing it onto your employees and former employees, it's a huge problem, and most companies in SV/SF are borderline in the pushy area. Simply offering a drink in a situation where the employer has exceptional power over an employee or potential employee (at work or in an interview for example) makes the employee feel like they need to drink to fit in and not get penalized by the company or the bosses. I think most companies and employers don't think like that because they simply assume everyone likes to drink which is incredibly closed minded. I've known other people, other than myself, who do not drink or cannot drink (because of unrelated health reasons) feel pressured to drink at work. I'm sure someone will say that one can refuse. That is true. One can indeed refuse, but not without negative consequences. One cannot refuse and still keep one's status and place. The refusal will be questioned, as if the refusal is the unnatural position, not the offer. I'm sure it's even more hellish for addicts who have to work at these places, but at least, they're quite used to unfair social stigma.

vijayr 11y ago
Same with being vegetarian/vegan. The amount of jokes ("ah,rabbit food" pointing to the salad) gets old and annoying fast. I never understood why people can't just concentrate on their own food/drinks instead of others.
- joesmo 11y ago
  I find that people always want to know why you're a vegetarian. Honestly, for me, there are a ton of reasons and many of them are not quite dinner table conversations, especially when meat-eaters are involved as it grosses them out.
  - vijayr 11y ago
    Once with a good friend, when she said "rabbit food", I said "dead body" pointing to her chicken. That was childish of me and she obviously didn't like it. So it is possible to make fun and even annoy meat eaters, but it would only end up straining the friendship (or whatever relationship) and nothing will come out of it. The best thing to do is to just smile and keep eating.

gorena 11y ago

What is "tech culture"? I work at a startup and I drink, like, one beer every two weeks - actually, I almost exclusively drink tap water and skim milk. I don't really do "company outings" or hang around though. I'd rather see my girlfriend (who doesn't drink). Maybe the problem is having your friend base being based around "work" instead of around a healthy shared interest, like cycling, a rock climbing gym, soccer, etc.?