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Socialism is a "bogeyman" in the US because it has contributed nothing to the success of our country and capitalism and private property, its antithesis, has be

by abrgr 11y ago

Socialism is a "bogeyman" in the US because it has contributed nothing to the success of our country and capitalism and private property, its antithesis, has been responsible for our rise as the greatest economic power the world has ever seen. Half of the comments on here are extolling Elon Musk and this forum exists precisely because of the advancements of similar private tech pioneers. The Netherlands is a great place and I loved the time I spent there, but no one talks about replicating the inventiveness and penchant for the creation of world-changing technologies of the Netherlands. The US is the innovation capital of the world for a reason.

bakhy 11y ago
it's not really that simple. the US had enormous untapped natural resources, and is still well-off in that respect. and the two world wars were not fought on its territory. of course, i do not want to say that's all, the US model is respectable and its success deserves respect. i just don't think it can be completely attributed to anti-socialism, nor that a bit of socialism would destroy it. (which, btw, we can see now, or? US does have a pretty big social apparatus, and is still doing very well.)
eevilspock 11y ago
Have you considered how much American innovation happened as a result of: - Government programs, the huge military budget, and the once huge space budget (which can be argued was really an extension of the military budget). Can you say for certain that the Internet and would have come about in the U.S. first if it weren't for DARPA? The advancement of computers if it weren't for NASA? - Non capitalist or profit seeking scientists (Many if not most of whom are funded by the government or philanthropies). - Luck. The U.S. has an immense natural resources to population ratio, perhaps the highest. It has, at present, virtually limitless land. It doesn't have to worry much about its borders or invasion. Our one border "worry" is actually a benefit to exploitive capitalism: a super cheap black-market labor. Since you mention "private property", do you realize it is entirely antithetical to free market principles? See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9942313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9942313. Since you mention Elon Musk, could he have achieved what he achieved without $4.9 billion in government subsidies? (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...) I could easily extend this list and make a more powerful argument, but I have work to do. The point I'm really making is to be objective about your analysis of what is behind American innovation and success. We won't even get into things that we call innovation but have not made the world a better place.

by abrgr 11y ago

bakhy 11y ago

it's not really that simple. the US had enormous untapped natural resources, and is still well-off in that respect. and the two world wars were not fought on its territory. of course, i do not want to say that's all, the US model is respectable and its success deserves respect. i just don't think it can be completely attributed to anti-socialism, nor that a bit of socialism would destroy it. (which, btw, we can see now, or? US does have a pretty big social apparatus, and is still doing very well.)

eevilspock 11y ago

Have you considered how much American innovation happened as a result of: - Government programs, the huge military budget, and the once huge space budget (which can be argued was really an extension of the military budget). Can you say for certain that the Internet and would have come about in the U.S. first if it weren't for DARPA? The advancement of computers if it weren't for NASA? - Non capitalist or profit seeking scientists (Many if not most of whom are funded by the government or philanthropies). - Luck. The U.S. has an immense natural resources to population ratio, perhaps the highest. It has, at present, virtually limitless land. It doesn't have to worry much about its borders or invasion. Our one border "worry" is actually a benefit to exploitive capitalism: a super cheap black-market labor. Since you mention "private property", do you realize it is entirely antithetical to free market principles? See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9942313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9942313. Since you mention Elon Musk, could he have achieved what he achieved without $4.9 billion in government subsidies? (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...) I could easily extend this list and make a more powerful argument, but I have work to do. The point I'm really making is to be objective about your analysis of what is behind American innovation and success. We won't even get into things that we call innovation but have not made the world a better place.