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I feel like a doofus asking this- I was always under the (false?) impression that socialists and fascists were diametric opposites- how is a nation asserting ru

by trentmb 11y ago

I feel like a doofus asking this- I was always under the (false?) impression that socialists and fascists were diametric opposites- how is a nation asserting rule over an industry socialist, but not fascist?

verinus 11y ago
well i think that is only due to latest history, but take Nazi party of WWII for example: nazi is short for national sozialist; NSDAP for nationalsozialistische deutsche arbeiter partei (national socialist german labor party)
calibraxis 11y ago
Perfectly sensible question! Meanings of words drift. And these are historic real-world movements; the definitions don't come from dictionaries. Orwellian propaganda muddies the waters: the Nazis called themselves "socialists"; East Germany under the Soviet Union called itself the "German Democratic Republic". These quotes seem to be helpful: "I mean fascism pretty much in the traditional sense, [analogous to] a system in which the state integrates labor and capital under their control. The ideal is top-down control with the public essentially following orders." (http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Noam_Chomsky_Corporations.htm http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Noam_Chomsky_Corporations.h...) "Now, as far as socialism is concerned, that term has been so evacuated of content over the last century, that it’s hard even to use. I mean, the Soviet Union was called a socialist society by the two major propaganda operations in the world: the western one and the Soviet one. They both called it socialism for opposite reasons." (https://tansafte.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/some-footnotes-for-the-video-chomsky-on-socialism/ https://tansafte.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/some-footnotes-for...)
fit2rule 11y ago
This is something that is very important to understand - all human activities can devolve into an authoritarian/totalitarian condition akin to fascism, no matter the original intent. We are all capable of becoming the very totalitarians we despise - even despising totalitarianism can, itself, become a form of authoritarian dogma which overrules individual freedom. The key is, dogma.

by trentmb 11y ago

verinus 11y ago

well i think that is only due to latest history, but take Nazi party of WWII for example: nazi is short for national sozialist; NSDAP for nationalsozialistische deutsche arbeiter partei (national socialist german labor party)

calibraxis 11y ago

Perfectly sensible question! Meanings of words drift. And these are historic real-world movements; the definitions don't come from dictionaries. Orwellian propaganda muddies the waters: the Nazis called themselves "socialists"; East Germany under the Soviet Union called itself the "German Democratic Republic". These quotes seem to be helpful: "I mean fascism pretty much in the traditional sense, [analogous to] a system in which the state integrates labor and capital under their control. The ideal is top-down control with the public essentially following orders." (http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Noam_Chomsky_Corporations.htm http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Noam_Chomsky_Corporations.h...) "Now, as far as socialism is concerned, that term has been so evacuated of content over the last century, that it’s hard even to use. I mean, the Soviet Union was called a socialist society by the two major propaganda operations in the world: the western one and the Soviet one. They both called it socialism for opposite reasons." (https://tansafte.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/some-footnotes-for-the-video-chomsky-on-socialism/ https://tansafte.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/some-footnotes-for...)

fit2rule 11y ago

This is something that is very important to understand - all human activities can devolve into an authoritarian/totalitarian condition akin to fascism, no matter the original intent. We are all capable of becoming the very totalitarians we despise - even despising totalitarianism can, itself, become a form of authoritarian dogma which overrules individual freedom. The key is, dogma.