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Wow. From the article, an example post on the Verge "downloaded 12MB - a little over 7MB in that is JavaScript" and a refresh of the page with things cached sti

Wow. From the article, an example post on the Verge "downloaded 12MB - a little over 7MB in that is JavaScript" and a refresh of the page with things cached still downloaded 8MB again. And key here -- the article HTML content itself was 75k, the rest is ad network Javascript. (apparently over 20 different companies) I don't like tracking scripts either but why can't the ad networks get together and create a shared script instead of so many that seem to be redundant?

thedz 11y ago
> I don't like tracking scripts either but why can't the ad networks get together and create a shared script instead of so many that seem to be redundant? I've asked that myself many times, and I mostly decided that part of the reason is at least partly related to why there were so many browser engines back in the day (Mozilla, IE, Webkit, Opera, etc). Each company thinks they can track something differently/better than another. Even if ultimately it just lowers the bar for the industry.
- sbarre 11y ago
  Also, a lot of these products are part snake oil, so getting together to come up with shared tools would expose all that waste and redundancy and put half of them out of business.. Wait, that sounds great.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
sudioStudio64 11y ago
Why can't the site just collect some data from the client and forward it to the ad networks on the backend? All of this stuff needs to happen out of band.
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  Because the trend is for the client to bear the burden.
  - sudioStudio64 11y ago
    It sounds like the Mozilla solution of building some kind of intelligence around advertising might be the way to go then. Injecting all this stuff in the page load is crazy.
- tempodox 11y ago
  Everybody is cooking their own soup and no-one wants to share their toys and sandbox with the other children.
  - jfb 11y ago
    Sharpers and snake oil salesmen peddling nonsenseware to terrified publishers who watched their entire business model crumble to sand in the face of craigslist.
- brown9-2 11y ago
  Because the ad networks don't completely trust the publishers.
- manigandham 11y ago
  Good question: we are getting there with the major DMPs (data management platforms) which are Krux, Exelate/Nielsen, BlueKai/Oracle, Adobe, Facebook and Google. There are dozens of smaller players but they now all hook into these major 6 so those are the tags you're seeing. At this level, these are billion dollar companies so there won't be much more consolidation.
manigandham 11y ago
This is complicated because of how ad networks work and all the layers involved. We have somewhat of a standard called RTB (real-time bidding) where an exchange will see each impression and run an auction in 100ms for each ad slot and then take the winning bid and render it on the page. That was easy and efficient when it was just an image. Now ad formats have become more "engaging" and require javascript tags to run (like those expanding ads). So now the exchange tag wont just load an image but load more JS tags to render the ad. Then we have DMPs (data management platforms) that are solely about measuring your audience. Each one is a isolated silo of data and they dont share because they all have their own algorithms and backend connections with offline data sources to provide value. Most publishers and networks however have to work with all of them since ad buyers want access to everything or they wont spend. Then we have the new 3rd layer of vendors who do ad fraud and viewability (measuring whether an ad is actually visible in the browser window) which is yet more tags to make sure the original ads are actually rendered and worth something. Then there are some ad networks that don't work through RTB exchanges that need their own tags on the page. An additional tag isn't the problem, it's the fact that these networks are designed to just offload as much as possible to yet more providers which means a single 5kb tag can balloon into dozens of requests which all load their own crappy frameworks to do the same thing. 10 small tags on a page are fine. 10 small tags that load 25 tags each is what's killing these sites. Disclaimer: I've built ad networks and run my own now. EDIT: I wanted to add that part of what I'm pushing for in the industry is more regulation not only with business practices and data but also technical certification. Something to prove that an ad network is actually designed well and won't be a burden on sites/users. Then buyers can just trust that certification without asking for all these 3rd party vendor verification tags that slow down sites and increase cost. Any ideas for making this happen would be appreciated.
- look_lookatme 11y ago
  > So now the exchange tag wont just load an image but load more JS tags to render the ad. Not to mention that more and more this javascript is spent calculating whether an ad is being viewed are not and phoning that data back home. Ad providers do this in different ways and it's not uncommon to see them send down a full jQuery build with their ad.

thedz 11y ago

> I don't like tracking scripts either but why can't the ad networks get together and create a shared script instead of so many that seem to be redundant? I've asked that myself many times, and I mostly decided that part of the reason is at least partly related to why there were so many browser engines back in the day (Mozilla, IE, Webkit, Opera, etc). Each company thinks they can track something differently/better than another. Even if ultimately it just lowers the bar for the industry.

sbarre 11y ago
Also, a lot of these products are part snake oil, so getting together to come up with shared tools would expose all that waste and redundancy and put half of them out of business.. Wait, that sounds great.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

sudioStudio64 11y ago

Why can't the site just collect some data from the client and forward it to the ad networks on the backend? All of this stuff needs to happen out of band.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago
Because the trend is for the client to bear the burden.
- sudioStudio64 11y ago
  It sounds like the Mozilla solution of building some kind of intelligence around advertising might be the way to go then. Injecting all this stuff in the page load is crazy.
tempodox 11y ago
Everybody is cooking their own soup and no-one wants to share their toys and sandbox with the other children.
- jfb 11y ago
  Sharpers and snake oil salesmen peddling nonsenseware to terrified publishers who watched their entire business model crumble to sand in the face of craigslist.
brown9-2 11y ago
Because the ad networks don't completely trust the publishers.
manigandham 11y ago
Good question: we are getting there with the major DMPs (data management platforms) which are Krux, Exelate/Nielsen, BlueKai/Oracle, Adobe, Facebook and Google. There are dozens of smaller players but they now all hook into these major 6 so those are the tags you're seeing. At this level, these are billion dollar companies so there won't be much more consolidation.

manigandham 11y ago

This is complicated because of how ad networks work and all the layers involved. We have somewhat of a standard called RTB (real-time bidding) where an exchange will see each impression and run an auction in 100ms for each ad slot and then take the winning bid and render it on the page. That was easy and efficient when it was just an image. Now ad formats have become more "engaging" and require javascript tags to run (like those expanding ads). So now the exchange tag wont just load an image but load more JS tags to render the ad. Then we have DMPs (data management platforms) that are solely about measuring your audience. Each one is a isolated silo of data and they dont share because they all have their own algorithms and backend connections with offline data sources to provide value. Most publishers and networks however have to work with all of them since ad buyers want access to everything or they wont spend. Then we have the new 3rd layer of vendors who do ad fraud and viewability (measuring whether an ad is actually visible in the browser window) which is yet more tags to make sure the original ads are actually rendered and worth something. Then there are some ad networks that don't work through RTB exchanges that need their own tags on the page. An additional tag isn't the problem, it's the fact that these networks are designed to just offload as much as possible to yet more providers which means a single 5kb tag can balloon into dozens of requests which all load their own crappy frameworks to do the same thing. 10 small tags on a page are fine. 10 small tags that load 25 tags each is what's killing these sites. Disclaimer: I've built ad networks and run my own now. EDIT: I wanted to add that part of what I'm pushing for in the industry is more regulation not only with business practices and data but also technical certification. Something to prove that an ad network is actually designed well and won't be a burden on sites/users. Then buyers can just trust that certification without asking for all these 3rd party vendor verification tags that slow down sites and increase cost. Any ideas for making this happen would be appreciated.

look_lookatme 11y ago
> So now the exchange tag wont just load an image but load more JS tags to render the ad. Not to mention that more and more this javascript is spent calculating whether an ad is being viewed are not and phoning that data back home. Ad providers do this in different ways and it's not uncommon to see them send down a full jQuery build with their ad.