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These are the fascinating things that keep me coming back. Are there any ghost routes in the US that anyone knows of?

by rrrx3 11y ago

ItsDeathball 11y ago
Pretty much every Amtrak line outside of the Northeast or the West Coast is a "ghost route" in the sense the article describes. I took the Sunset Limited as a kid once from New Orleans to Mobile. Aside from my dad and my brother, there was one other passenger on the train. That leg of the route was cancelled after Katrina washed out the rail bridges in 2005; they've since been restored, but the train service hasn't.
- pm24601 11y ago
  You should get out more. My family and I ride Amtrak from California to Colorado. That 1 train is always busy. In a first-world country, there would be 2 trains/day instead of the single train.
  - yokohama11 11y ago
    There's not really any market justification for running it in the first place (aside from what value it has for scenic purposes), nor is there ever likely to be. A flight from Denver to San Francisco is $150-200 roundtrip and takes about 2 hours. A train from Denver to Emeryville (the train doesn't even go into the city) takes about 33 hours and costs $220 and hemorrhages money so badly that each passenger is a loss of $150+ even with that price. You could dump 100 billion into it, making it true HSR and not having any intermediate stops, and it still won't be time competitive, and obviously won't be cost competitive. The distances are too large. I support the HSR corridors, and more commuter services in the urban/semi-urban areas. But with the long distances and zero population density of most of the American West, the cross-country routes often make little sense beyond basically being a long scenic railway.
    - pm24601 11y ago
      "That 1 train is always busy" As someone who rides the train I can tell you that you are very, very wrong. In the winter lots of people ride it to Reno. Families ride it from Winnemucca, NV to Green River, UT. Kids ride it (by themselves) between Reno and Winnemucca. Lots of families ride it that can't afford the airfare for all of them. Or they have too much luggage, or they live in rural areas that are hours away from the nearest major airport. Unlike an airplane that is point to point - the train connects people in the in-between places to other in-between places. Between SFO and Chicago, Amtrak sells each seat in the zepher about 3-4x. I know that the train will be crowded between bay area and reno ( filled with people that don't exist apparently ). It will empty out at Reno. Gradually refill across nevada, utah and western colorado. Empty out again in Denver. And then refill to chicago. And yes I have met people who are taking the train all the way. Traveling by train is way more than just getting there. And that airfare from SFO-DEN - that is fantasy - esp around christmas.
      - jacalata 11y ago
        He says it is not cost effective to run. You said he is wrong, but don't seem to have addressed the same topic at all.
        pm24601 11y ago
        Hmmm - I believe I did. From a single person's perspective: it is expensive to fly from winnemucca,nv to say green river, ut. And as far as the whole "does not pay" / "subsidies" - that is a nonsense argument because no one applies that standard to the interstate highway system or to airports.
- selimthegrim 11y ago
  This frustrates me to no end; I live in NO and would love to be able to get to Jacksonville, Pensacola, Mobile or Orlando without the interminably boring drive down I-10...

These are the fascinating things that keep me coming back. Are there any ghost routes in the US that anyone knows of?

by rrrx3 11y ago

These are the fascinating things that keep me coming back. Are there any ghost routes in the US that anyone knows of?

Pretty much every Amtrak line outside of the Northeast or the West Coast is a "ghost route" in the sense the article describes. I took the Sunset Limited as a kid once from New Orleans to Mobile. Aside from my dad and my brother, there was one other passenger on the train. That leg of the route was cancelled after Katrina washed out the rail bridges in 2005; they've since been restored, but the train service hasn't.

pm24601 11y ago
You should get out more. My family and I ride Amtrak from California to Colorado. That 1 train is always busy. In a first-world country, there would be 2 trains/day instead of the single train.
- yokohama11 11y ago
  There's not really any market justification for running it in the first place (aside from what value it has for scenic purposes), nor is there ever likely to be. A flight from Denver to San Francisco is $150-200 roundtrip and takes about 2 hours. A train from Denver to Emeryville (the train doesn't even go into the city) takes about 33 hours and costs $220 and hemorrhages money so badly that each passenger is a loss of $150+ even with that price. You could dump 100 billion into it, making it true HSR and not having any intermediate stops, and it still won't be time competitive, and obviously won't be cost competitive. The distances are too large. I support the HSR corridors, and more commuter services in the urban/semi-urban areas. But with the long distances and zero population density of most of the American West, the cross-country routes often make little sense beyond basically being a long scenic railway.
  - pm24601 11y ago
    "That 1 train is always busy" As someone who rides the train I can tell you that you are very, very wrong. In the winter lots of people ride it to Reno. Families ride it from Winnemucca, NV to Green River, UT. Kids ride it (by themselves) between Reno and Winnemucca. Lots of families ride it that can't afford the airfare for all of them. Or they have too much luggage, or they live in rural areas that are hours away from the nearest major airport. Unlike an airplane that is point to point - the train connects people in the in-between places to other in-between places. Between SFO and Chicago, Amtrak sells each seat in the zepher about 3-4x. I know that the train will be crowded between bay area and reno ( filled with people that don't exist apparently ). It will empty out at Reno. Gradually refill across nevada, utah and western colorado. Empty out again in Denver. And then refill to chicago. And yes I have met people who are taking the train all the way. Traveling by train is way more than just getting there. And that airfare from SFO-DEN - that is fantasy - esp around christmas.
    - jacalata 11y ago
      He says it is not cost effective to run. You said he is wrong, but don't seem to have addressed the same topic at all.
      - pm24601 11y ago
        Hmmm - I believe I did. From a single person's perspective: it is expensive to fly from winnemucca,nv to say green river, ut. And as far as the whole "does not pay" / "subsidies" - that is a nonsense argument because no one applies that standard to the interstate highway system or to airports.
selimthegrim 11y ago
This frustrates me to no end; I live in NO and would love to be able to get to Jacksonville, Pensacola, Mobile or Orlando without the interminably boring drive down I-10...