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most of the widely known writers from China are no more ancient than the widely known writers from Greece, so "even further back," which I suppose you typed rel

by miles 17y ago

most of the widely known writers from China are no more ancient than the widely known writers from Greece, so "even further back," which I suppose you typed relying on the source you kindly linked to, is incorrect. Actually, I was relying on early Taoist exercises for life extension predating comments on exercise I could find from Epictetus and other Greeks demonstrating their awareness of the beneficial effects of exercise. Whether or not Thales predates Confucius is irrelevant, unless either addressed the question of exercise (a quick Google search fails to uncover such a possibility). Mention should also be made of India: yoga is estimated to go back at least 5000 years, though I have not the energy or interest to go digging for evidence that they realized the connection between exercise and life extension.

tokenadult 17y ago
If you want to talk about history, you have to refer to historical sources, and those sources don't show that people in what is now called China or what is now called India thought about these issues any earlier than people in what is now called Greece. We have no idea whether or not there even were "early Taoist exercises" (and it would be debatable to call anything "Taoist" before the life of Lao Tzu, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi who may not even be a historical person) unless we can find mention of "Tao" and mention of that thing associated in a historical source.
- miles 17y ago
  sources don't show that people in what is now called China or what is now called India thought about these issues any earlier than people in what is now called Greece. If you can provide historical sources for exercise from Greece that predates yoga, I would be much obliged. Considering that: "Traditionally, the Ancient Greek period was taken to begin with the date of the first Olympic Games in 776 BC, but most historians now extend the term back to about 1000 BC." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece and that the earliest known text addressing yoga (the Rig Veda) can be traced back to at least 1700–1100 BC (with some sources putting it closer to 3000 BC), you will have your work cut out for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/aryan-harappan-myth.html http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/aryan-harappan-my... http://mindbodyfitness.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_old_is_yoga_fascinating_new_information http://mindbodyfitness.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_old_is_y...
  - tokenadult 17y ago
    I had not heard before how much nationalist myths (recently very influential in politics in India) had influenced entries in English-language publications such as Wikipedia. Suffice it to say that there is utterly no manuscript or epigraphic evidence for what you have said in your comment. The method of history is to work from written records. (Archeology wouldn't support what you said either.) But thanks for letting me know, by pointing to examples, that currently quick Google searches for facts on the history of India are even less reliable than searches for facts on the history of China. After edit: remember, as the thread is structured, you were the first to claim that peoples more ancient than those of ancient Greece "already knew that physical exercise leads to good health." That was your statement. You linked to pages that people can Google up, but you haven't yet pointed to any primary source for that proposition of undisputed date and provenance. On the one hand, I can accept as a general proposition that human beings for as long as Homo sapiens has been around had an intuition based on anecdotal experience that keeping moving preserves health (and helps catch tasty animals to eat), but on the other hand the epidemiologist mentioned in the article opening this thread really did discover a NEW, more detailed, epidemiological observation, which has been confirmed through multiple channels through physiological experiments in both animal and human subjects.
    - miles 17y ago
      My dear fellow, if you insist upon maintaining such a patronizing attitude, at least be good enough to provide some documented evidence, even something that can be "Googled up". So far you've offered nothing but blanket statements of supposed fact, hand waving, and sarcasm.

by miles 17y ago

tokenadult 17y ago

If you want to talk about history, you have to refer to historical sources, and those sources don't show that people in what is now called China or what is now called India thought about these issues any earlier than people in what is now called Greece. We have no idea whether or not there even were "early Taoist exercises" (and it would be debatable to call anything "Taoist" before the life of Lao Tzu, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi who may not even be a historical person) unless we can find mention of "Tao" and mention of that thing associated in a historical source.

miles 17y ago
sources don't show that people in what is now called China or what is now called India thought about these issues any earlier than people in what is now called Greece. If you can provide historical sources for exercise from Greece that predates yoga, I would be much obliged. Considering that: "Traditionally, the Ancient Greek period was taken to begin with the date of the first Olympic Games in 776 BC, but most historians now extend the term back to about 1000 BC." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece and that the earliest known text addressing yoga (the Rig Veda) can be traced back to at least 1700–1100 BC (with some sources putting it closer to 3000 BC), you will have your work cut out for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/aryan-harappan-myth.html http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/aryan-harappan-my... http://mindbodyfitness.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_old_is_yoga_fascinating_new_information http://mindbodyfitness.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_old_is_y...
- tokenadult 17y ago
  I had not heard before how much nationalist myths (recently very influential in politics in India) had influenced entries in English-language publications such as Wikipedia. Suffice it to say that there is utterly no manuscript or epigraphic evidence for what you have said in your comment. The method of history is to work from written records. (Archeology wouldn't support what you said either.) But thanks for letting me know, by pointing to examples, that currently quick Google searches for facts on the history of India are even less reliable than searches for facts on the history of China. After edit: remember, as the thread is structured, you were the first to claim that peoples more ancient than those of ancient Greece "already knew that physical exercise leads to good health." That was your statement. You linked to pages that people can Google up, but you haven't yet pointed to any primary source for that proposition of undisputed date and provenance. On the one hand, I can accept as a general proposition that human beings for as long as Homo sapiens has been around had an intuition based on anecdotal experience that keeping moving preserves health (and helps catch tasty animals to eat), but on the other hand the epidemiologist mentioned in the article opening this thread really did discover a NEW, more detailed, epidemiological observation, which has been confirmed through multiple channels through physiological experiments in both animal and human subjects.
  - miles 17y ago
    My dear fellow, if you insist upon maintaining such a patronizing attitude, at least be good enough to provide some documented evidence, even something that can be "Googled up". So far you've offered nothing but blanket statements of supposed fact, hand waving, and sarcasm.