3 ms·

Where "winning" is the normalization of precarious labor where the employee assumes all risk and somehow makes even less money than they did in "the machine".

Where "winning" is the normalization of precarious labor where the employee assumes all risk and somehow makes even less money than they did in "the machine". Oh, but you got to the club a little faster. Baller, bro.

bitJericho 11y ago
What, a fair wage? Clearly that's un-American.
marssaxman 11y ago
I make a point of asking Uber and Lyft drivers how they like it. Lyft drivers universally love it. Uber drivers are less enthusiastic on the whole, but they have generally said it's better than working as a cab driver. I've since stopped using Uber since it's hard to feel comfortable about their business practices, but they're still better than the taxi monopolies and I'm happy to see them pursuing the fight and clearing the way for kindler, gentler services along the same lines. I am generally inclined to think that people should be free to make their own decisions about their lives. Whatever you may think about the risk/benefit tradeoff, it seems clear to me that drivers in Seattle who have the choice choose to drive for Uber, Lyft, or a private for-hire service rather than put up with the traditional cab dispatcher. I can make guesses at why that might be, overall, but I am certainly not going to tell them that they are making the wrong choice.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  To be honest, consider that it may take just one negative review to get fired ("independent contractors", hehe) from Uber (don't know how strict Lyft ratings are). I doubt the drivers that are not satisfied will risk answering you honestly, as you're a person in power to kick them out of their job by a single tap on your smartphone.
  - marssaxman 11y ago
    That's a reasonable point, and I certainly don't imagine that my informal survey results have any scientific validity. I do have what seems to be a higher-than-average sensitivity to body language, however, and I have never seen the signs of stress or guarding that I would expect if drivers were trying to give me the answers they thought I wanted. Perhaps Lyft's hiring process selects in some way for people who have the kind of social awareness and self-presentation skill necessary to fool me, but it seems simpler to believe that Lyft drivers are, by and large, genuinely happy about their jobs.
- beatpanda 11y ago
  The individual choices of Uber drivers aren't what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about the overall normalization of precarious labor that benefits the owners of capital and hurts the people doing the work. It starts to hurt workers everywhere if everyone gets used to accepting all of the risk of employment, not having access to workers comp or unemployment insurance, etc etc. And given the kind of benefits packages tech companies typically offer their workers, Uber's practices are especially hypocritical.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Taxi drivers were already precarious workers, with no benefits. Uber changed nothing in that regard.
icebraining 11y ago
Oh, bullshit, as if taxi drivers weren't already contractors without any benefits. Hell, they had to pay to work, by renting a medallion from millionaires like Evgeny Freidman, who can actually afford to buy them. Uber only takes a cut if you actually make money. Here's an article from way before Uber came around: "Driving a Taxi, Difficult in Best of Times, Gets Tougher" - http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/09/nyregion/driving-a-taxi-difficult-in-best-of-times-gets-tougher.html http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/09/nyregion/driving-a-taxi-di...

bitJericho 11y ago

What, a fair wage? Clearly that's un-American.

marssaxman 11y ago

I make a point of asking Uber and Lyft drivers how they like it. Lyft drivers universally love it. Uber drivers are less enthusiastic on the whole, but they have generally said it's better than working as a cab driver. I've since stopped using Uber since it's hard to feel comfortable about their business practices, but they're still better than the taxi monopolies and I'm happy to see them pursuing the fight and clearing the way for kindler, gentler services along the same lines. I am generally inclined to think that people should be free to make their own decisions about their lives. Whatever you may think about the risk/benefit tradeoff, it seems clear to me that drivers in Seattle who have the choice choose to drive for Uber, Lyft, or a private for-hire service rather than put up with the traditional cab dispatcher. I can make guesses at why that might be, overall, but I am certainly not going to tell them that they are making the wrong choice.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
To be honest, consider that it may take just one negative review to get fired ("independent contractors", hehe) from Uber (don't know how strict Lyft ratings are). I doubt the drivers that are not satisfied will risk answering you honestly, as you're a person in power to kick them out of their job by a single tap on your smartphone.
- marssaxman 11y ago
  That's a reasonable point, and I certainly don't imagine that my informal survey results have any scientific validity. I do have what seems to be a higher-than-average sensitivity to body language, however, and I have never seen the signs of stress or guarding that I would expect if drivers were trying to give me the answers they thought I wanted. Perhaps Lyft's hiring process selects in some way for people who have the kind of social awareness and self-presentation skill necessary to fool me, but it seems simpler to believe that Lyft drivers are, by and large, genuinely happy about their jobs.
beatpanda 11y ago
The individual choices of Uber drivers aren't what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about the overall normalization of precarious labor that benefits the owners of capital and hurts the people doing the work. It starts to hurt workers everywhere if everyone gets used to accepting all of the risk of employment, not having access to workers comp or unemployment insurance, etc etc. And given the kind of benefits packages tech companies typically offer their workers, Uber's practices are especially hypocritical.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Taxi drivers were already precarious workers, with no benefits. Uber changed nothing in that regard.

icebraining 11y ago

Oh, bullshit, as if taxi drivers weren't already contractors without any benefits. Hell, they had to pay to work, by renting a medallion from millionaires like Evgeny Freidman, who can actually afford to buy them. Uber only takes a cut if you actually make money. Here's an article from way before Uber came around: "Driving a Taxi, Difficult in Best of Times, Gets Tougher" - http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/09/nyregion/driving-a-taxi-difficult-in-best-of-times-gets-tougher.html http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/09/nyregion/driving-a-taxi-di...