3 ms·

I don't see how failure or success changes that question of "is a lifetime of free money for some small value of work acceptable?" -- nor am I even saying "no f

• Turing_Machine 11y ago
  "I don't see how failure or success changes that question of "is a lifetime of free money for some small value of work acceptable?"" Because it's not "free money". At all. Edit: "free" implies that you don't have to do anything for it. That's not the case. Do you also consider retirement pensions "free money"?
• mindcrime 11y ago
  Who said it was some "small value of work"??? Starting a company is FUCKING HARD, and the founders put in simply incredible amounts of effort in the early days. I mean, sure, it's different for different companies, but I know I've routinely worked 100+ hours a week for years with no vacation, sacrificed time with friends and family, sacrificed going out, partying, socializing and doing a lot of other things I enjoy, and even (stupidly) sacrificed my health to the point of having a heart-attack and almost dying. So yeah, if my company is ever successful enough to make a continuous profit, you're damn right I feel like I've earned my share of that future profit, even if I do decide to go lie on a beach somewhere and relax. The way I'm looking at it, I'll just be making up for all the times I didn't do that earlier on. I'm getting at, where does the passive ownership cross the line into rent-seeking? Who cares? Let's quit using "rent seeking" as some kind of pejorative. It's not, and it's nothing to make some big deal over.
  • Frondo 11y ago
    You know, let's be honest--starting your first business is hard, because you have to learn about marketing, customer outreach, listening to people and connecting them with things they want, etc. But 100 hours a week, for years? There's something bigger going wrong there--either you're trying to sell something people don't want, you've hired a lot of the wrong people, or whatever, I don't know. That's not typical, and it's certainly not praiseworthy. As for that "indefinite free money for past work," again, you're free to say you want that, and right now it's certainly yours to try and put into a contract. I don't agree that it's moral or right or deserved, no matter how many 100 hour weeks you work.
    • smtddr 11y ago
      >>But 100 hours a week, for years? There's something bigger going wrong there--either you're trying to sell something people don't want, you've hired a lot of the wrong people, or whatever, I don't know. That's not typical, and it's certainly not praiseworthy. You really need to get back to us after you've tried starting your own company. Even when you're not officially on the clock, it's impossible to put it out of your mind. I do not envy start-up founders; I'm quite happy with my inflated bay area engineer salary and up-to-date skillset that allows me to simply jump ship or swim to the next luxury yacht when the current one capsizes. (Honest) founders really pour their heart & soul into the business and have probably made some personal-life sacrifices and trade-offs. Founders more than deserve the lion's share of any benefits yielded by the company.
      • Frondo 11y ago
        And I'd say, you really need to step outside the YC bubble, if you think 100 hours a week for years is at all normal anywhere in the business world.
        • leesalminen 11y ago
          When you're truly passionate about what you do, how you do it, who you do it with and who you're doing it for it doesn't matter what the "normal" business world does. You end up doing what's right for your company at that moment. I don't go to bed without reminding myself that this isn't just for me. It's for my employees (livelihood), my customers (their businesses) and my family (creating a better life). When you frame it like that, hours just turn into numbers. It's irrelevant. Results matter.
          • s73v3r 11y ago
            "When you're truly passionate about what you do" I'm sorry, but that line is just absolute bullcrap.
            • leesalminen 11y ago