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The author completely glosses over a crucial fact: an individual's face is representative of the lifestyle that he or she lives. Fat; thin; tan; pale; bearded;

by zachb 11y ago

The author completely glosses over a crucial fact: an individual's face is representative of the lifestyle that he or she lives. Fat; thin; tan; pale; bearded; bald. Is your hair buzzed military grade, or does it spill over your shoulders? Do you take care of your skin? Do you wax your eyebrows? Our faces certainly tell some sort of story, but there's more to it than bone structure and brow size.

Alex3917 11y ago
Also, even your facial structure most likely changes throughout your life depending on the last couple years of your levels of dominance, trustworthiness, competence, etc. Just look at Dick Cheney.
- plonh 11y ago
  What??
justinhj 11y ago
I think that was an important and deliberate part of the research. The images in the article were specifically created to show the subtle facial features they were interested in. Sure if someone has a fat face and unkempt facial hair or a swastika tattoo on their forehead then you will make conscious and unconscious judgements about them. But the study seems to show clear bias without such prominent clues.
itg 11y ago
The entire article is about how bone structure can make a difference about how others perceive us, even if everything else is the same. The first sentence of the article gives a hypothetical of non-identical twins with the same exact lifestyle.
- gwern 11y ago
  > a hypothetical of non-identical twins with the same exact lifestyle. Which is a ridiculous hypothetical on the face of it. Non-identical twins, fraternal twins, are hardly more similar than siblings are. And siblings can differ quite a bit. Even if they somehow wound up the same on a few measured characteristics, they will still be rather different on many other characteristics and the hypothetical shows nothing.
m_fayer 11y ago
Absolutely. I'd also add that your face is a reflection of your personality and average emotional temperature. Your "neutral expression" will, over many years of muscle memory and habit, settle into some particular arrangement. People who tend toward bitterness, mistrust, anger, or anxiety - will look it, and inspire vague anxiety in anyone who deals with them. If, on the other hand, your neutral expression broadcasts poise, optimism, peace, wit, or good humor - the subtle good will that this generates will eventually add up to a significantly better experience of humanity. In this way, the way we look can be self-reinforcing. In a way, we all get the face we deserve.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  Aside from tending towards certain emotions, I'd wager that urban vs. rural residents probably have different default facial expressions. I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center. I'm not sure what my default face while I'm out in public is, but I've definitely got a certain expression I've learned to put on when I'm walking by people trying to sell me something, beg me for something, recruit me for something. I've had people start walking towards me, and then instantly back away when I slip that particular mask on. It's pretty great, but I'd wager that it's an adaptation that someone living in Farmersville, TX doesn't need to use very often.
  - noir_lord 11y ago
    > I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center. There is a cultural aspect here though as well, many Russians only smile amongst people they know, they think that people who smile at strangers are either simple or up to something, I once asked a Russian about this and he said that you pretty much never smile except with friends and it's a different kind of smile, he also said it was one of the things he liked about England in that we are fairly close to Russians in that regard. http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/ http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
>face is representative of the lifestyle that he or she lives. Fat; thin; tan; pale; bearded; bald. That completely ignores congenital conditions, skin diseases, losing the genetic lottery, etc. There are a lot of people who lead truly shitty lives and who look great and vice-versa. I think we're buying way too much into genetic determinism here and this all sounds like shades of eugenics. Its incredible that even geeks buy into "Prettier people are better people" silliness.
- mhurron 11y ago
  > Its incredible that even geeks It's almost like no matter what you label yourself as you're still human, as if these labels are really meaningless.
cafard 11y ago
Bald is representative of my life span, but of my lifestyle only to the extent that it has helped me to live to be old enough to lose the hair.
- gadders 11y ago
  If you had a combover I would judge you hard.
- mhurron 11y ago
  > Bald is representative of my life span No it's not, unless your saying that outside of any specific disease or condition you lived to puberty. Many people start balding in their late teens, others never do. That you balded is representative that there is probably someone in your ancestry that was bald. That's pretty much it.

by zachb 11y ago

Alex3917 11y ago

Also, even your facial structure most likely changes throughout your life depending on the last couple years of your levels of dominance, trustworthiness, competence, etc. Just look at Dick Cheney.

plonh 11y ago
What??

justinhj 11y ago

I think that was an important and deliberate part of the research. The images in the article were specifically created to show the subtle facial features they were interested in. Sure if someone has a fat face and unkempt facial hair or a swastika tattoo on their forehead then you will make conscious and unconscious judgements about them. But the study seems to show clear bias without such prominent clues.

itg 11y ago

The entire article is about how bone structure can make a difference about how others perceive us, even if everything else is the same. The first sentence of the article gives a hypothetical of non-identical twins with the same exact lifestyle.

gwern 11y ago
> a hypothetical of non-identical twins with the same exact lifestyle. Which is a ridiculous hypothetical on the face of it. Non-identical twins, fraternal twins, are hardly more similar than siblings are. And siblings can differ quite a bit. Even if they somehow wound up the same on a few measured characteristics, they will still be rather different on many other characteristics and the hypothetical shows nothing.

m_fayer 11y ago

Absolutely. I'd also add that your face is a reflection of your personality and average emotional temperature. Your "neutral expression" will, over many years of muscle memory and habit, settle into some particular arrangement. People who tend toward bitterness, mistrust, anger, or anxiety - will look it, and inspire vague anxiety in anyone who deals with them. If, on the other hand, your neutral expression broadcasts poise, optimism, peace, wit, or good humor - the subtle good will that this generates will eventually add up to a significantly better experience of humanity. In this way, the way we look can be self-reinforcing. In a way, we all get the face we deserve.

pavel_lishin 11y ago
Aside from tending towards certain emotions, I'd wager that urban vs. rural residents probably have different default facial expressions. I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center. I'm not sure what my default face while I'm out in public is, but I've definitely got a certain expression I've learned to put on when I'm walking by people trying to sell me something, beg me for something, recruit me for something. I've had people start walking towards me, and then instantly back away when I slip that particular mask on. It's pretty great, but I'd wager that it's an adaptation that someone living in Farmersville, TX doesn't need to use very often.
- noir_lord 11y ago
  > I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center. There is a cultural aspect here though as well, many Russians only smile amongst people they know, they think that people who smile at strangers are either simple or up to something, I once asked a Russian about this and he said that you pretty much never smile except with friends and it's a different kind of smile, he also said it was one of the things he liked about England in that we are fairly close to Russians in that regard. http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/ http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

>face is representative of the lifestyle that he or she lives. Fat; thin; tan; pale; bearded; bald. That completely ignores congenital conditions, skin diseases, losing the genetic lottery, etc. There are a lot of people who lead truly shitty lives and who look great and vice-versa. I think we're buying way too much into genetic determinism here and this all sounds like shades of eugenics. Its incredible that even geeks buy into "Prettier people are better people" silliness.

mhurron 11y ago
> Its incredible that even geeks It's almost like no matter what you label yourself as you're still human, as if these labels are really meaningless.

cafard 11y ago

Bald is representative of my life span, but of my lifestyle only to the extent that it has helped me to live to be old enough to lose the hair.

gadders 11y ago
If you had a combover I would judge you hard.
mhurron 11y ago
> Bald is representative of my life span No it's not, unless your saying that outside of any specific disease or condition you lived to puberty. Many people start balding in their late teens, others never do. That you balded is representative that there is probably someone in your ancestry that was bald. That's pretty much it.