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The shape and design of Japanese knives is indeed quite different in use than the typical western chef's knife. It takes a little adjustment, but personally I d

by jarcane 11y ago

The shape and design of Japanese knives is indeed quite different in use than the typical western chef's knife. It takes a little adjustment, but personally I do prefer a good santoku blade when I can get one, unless I'm doing something that needs the extra length. The thing about Japanese knife making is that they're just about the only ones left doing it that way, and there are advantages to hand-forged steel. You can't get the same results from machine stamping, and yeah, centuries of experience is not to be sneezed at in any profession. You'd be surprised how much of the working knowledge of a whole range of fields dates back to the middle ages. One of the holy grails of Western smithing books came out in the time of woodcuts. Using high carbon steel increases the tensile strength and hardness of the blade. It's true that crafted Japanese knives do require more regular care and maintenance, but the durability in the long term if properly treated is dramatically greater than stamped stainless knives. There are sushi chefs in Japan using 100+ year old knives. I was a cook professionally for many years, and I've tried a whole range of knives from the lowest to the highest end, and no knife I have ever used has been as pleasant to work with as a good Japanese forged knife. I'd still buy one in a heartbeat if I could both spare the cash and justify it for simple home use.

lafar6502 11y ago
I find it hard to believe that there are enough knife forging masters in Japan to be able to supply all hand made blades to the whole world. In last few years the demand has gone up many times (fashion, marketing, Internet) and the supply of master craftsmen is limited,even in Japan - i'd expect everybody and their grandma is making knives now from pre-machined components.
- petewailes 11y ago
  You'd be surprised. The profile (no pun intended) of these types of blades have gotten has gone up a lot, but the actual number of hand made items hasn't really increased much as a result. They're expensive, and if you're not cooking a lot, or a very serious hobbyist, then you're not going to want to take on the burden of care that a knife like this requires. The flip side of that is that the production of this kind of knife is not something that's easily done at scale, while keeping the standard high. However, there are ways to get a similar aesthetic, without the same demands on the worker. That's where you get things like Global, Shun, Mac etc (and to a lesser extent, Tojiro and their ilk). TL:DR - lots of this style of knife exist nowadays, but the number of handmade items is still small.
- buttermilk 11y ago
  What petewailes said. They the exposure has increased exponentially, the monetized result of that has been the sale of machined knives. Many craftspeople of many industries in Japan, have a surprisingly limited exposure on the internet. The known names definitely have year long waits now, but there's still room.
vehementi 11y ago
> centuries of experience is not to be sneezed at in any profession. You'd be surprised how much of the working knowledge of a whole range of fields dates back to the middle ages. One of the holy grails of Western smithing books came out in the time of woodcuts. I totally agree, it's just that, are zero people in the US good enough to make these knives? Does it require such expertise that if your father wasn't a knife forging expert, it's inconceivable that you could otherwise learn or be taught how to do this to make a good enough knife? Why can't I (say, a decent smith in the US) read a book on this technique, do it for a couple of years and churn out the same quality knives? I'm sure the 100 year old Japanese artisan smiths of Lothlorien make more subtly elegant knives, but a chef, or at least the general market of in-the-know chefs who want a strongass knife, should not care about that to the point of needing to import them from Japan.
- jarcane 11y ago
  I don't think we even have any analog to it in the US anymore. Japan still has a strong tradition of apprenticeship and a cultural appreciation for craftsmanship that, well, the US doesn't even have the history for. Many of the Japanese smiths who make these blades started apprenticing from childhood, from someone else who was apprenticed since childhood, and on and on back centuries. And the custom in such apprenticeship is that you might expect to spend years doing the same simple task before being allowed to move on to the next. For an analogy: some of the best sushi chefs using those knives were themselves apprentices who spent years just learning how to make rice, before they were even allowed to touch a piece of fish. That kind of practice is hard to compete with unless you've been through it yourself, and chances are if you're old enough to post on this website, you are already behind. Now there are smiths, plenty of them in the states. Many very good ones indeed, even some who have had some training or study with the Japanese. The focus though, tends to be on swords or hunting/outdoor or fighting knives. Not many bother with kitchen knives, the demand isn't high and the requirements are different, and who would they sell them to? Here in the states they'd have to compete with a culture that can by a chef's knife for $15 from any restaurant supply store. House knives are cheap but durable, and easily replaced if they go too dull. If you want good knives, you buy your own import, is the general rule among chefs. Manufactured, probably from a European make, or handcrafted from Japan if you're a hardcore sushi chef. So it's not that isn't theoretically possible, there's just a hell of a lot of economic factors preventing it.
buttermilk 11y ago
@jarcane Well said! +1 I'm surprised that I too have been using a santoku as a daily driver. They're great when they're done well.

by jarcane 11y ago

lafar6502 11y ago

I find it hard to believe that there are enough knife forging masters in Japan to be able to supply all hand made blades to the whole world. In last few years the demand has gone up many times (fashion, marketing, Internet) and the supply of master craftsmen is limited,even in Japan - i'd expect everybody and their grandma is making knives now from pre-machined components.

petewailes 11y ago
You'd be surprised. The profile (no pun intended) of these types of blades have gotten has gone up a lot, but the actual number of hand made items hasn't really increased much as a result. They're expensive, and if you're not cooking a lot, or a very serious hobbyist, then you're not going to want to take on the burden of care that a knife like this requires. The flip side of that is that the production of this kind of knife is not something that's easily done at scale, while keeping the standard high. However, there are ways to get a similar aesthetic, without the same demands on the worker. That's where you get things like Global, Shun, Mac etc (and to a lesser extent, Tojiro and their ilk). TL:DR - lots of this style of knife exist nowadays, but the number of handmade items is still small.
buttermilk 11y ago
What petewailes said. They the exposure has increased exponentially, the monetized result of that has been the sale of machined knives. Many craftspeople of many industries in Japan, have a surprisingly limited exposure on the internet. The known names definitely have year long waits now, but there's still room.

vehementi 11y ago

> centuries of experience is not to be sneezed at in any profession. You'd be surprised how much of the working knowledge of a whole range of fields dates back to the middle ages. One of the holy grails of Western smithing books came out in the time of woodcuts. I totally agree, it's just that, are zero people in the US good enough to make these knives? Does it require such expertise that if your father wasn't a knife forging expert, it's inconceivable that you could otherwise learn or be taught how to do this to make a good enough knife? Why can't I (say, a decent smith in the US) read a book on this technique, do it for a couple of years and churn out the same quality knives? I'm sure the 100 year old Japanese artisan smiths of Lothlorien make more subtly elegant knives, but a chef, or at least the general market of in-the-know chefs who want a strongass knife, should not care about that to the point of needing to import them from Japan.

jarcane 11y ago
I don't think we even have any analog to it in the US anymore. Japan still has a strong tradition of apprenticeship and a cultural appreciation for craftsmanship that, well, the US doesn't even have the history for. Many of the Japanese smiths who make these blades started apprenticing from childhood, from someone else who was apprenticed since childhood, and on and on back centuries. And the custom in such apprenticeship is that you might expect to spend years doing the same simple task before being allowed to move on to the next. For an analogy: some of the best sushi chefs using those knives were themselves apprentices who spent years just learning how to make rice, before they were even allowed to touch a piece of fish. That kind of practice is hard to compete with unless you've been through it yourself, and chances are if you're old enough to post on this website, you are already behind. Now there are smiths, plenty of them in the states. Many very good ones indeed, even some who have had some training or study with the Japanese. The focus though, tends to be on swords or hunting/outdoor or fighting knives. Not many bother with kitchen knives, the demand isn't high and the requirements are different, and who would they sell them to? Here in the states they'd have to compete with a culture that can by a chef's knife for $15 from any restaurant supply store. House knives are cheap but durable, and easily replaced if they go too dull. If you want good knives, you buy your own import, is the general rule among chefs. Manufactured, probably from a European make, or handcrafted from Japan if you're a hardcore sushi chef. So it's not that isn't theoretically possible, there's just a hell of a lot of economic factors preventing it.

buttermilk 11y ago

@jarcane Well said! +1 I'm surprised that I too have been using a santoku as a daily driver. They're great when they're done well.