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Sydney Declutters Parking Signs with E-Ink
- pluma 11y agoThe problem isn't space but complexity. This isn't making things easier, it's just hiding complexity.
- Qwertious 11y agoIt's streamlining the interface, only showing the info that's currently relevant.
- alandarev 11y agoDuring week days I often pay attention to signs while I am walking/driving through to keep in mind if I will be able to park there on Saturday or Sunday. With these new signs - that would be impossible.
- JoshTriplett 11y agoYou also wouldn't know if you can park after the sign changes in general. If it says you can park from 3 to 11PM, what do you do if you arrive at 10:30 and you want to know what happens at 11? With a sign that shows all the requirements, it might say that parking costs money from 3-11 and after that it's free, or it might say that you can't park at all after 11. With these signs, you don't know until 11.
- JoshTriplett 11y agoBetter to streamline the parking restrictions themselves; that would make the signs simpler without hiding anything.
- jasonkester 11y agoSeems like a disaster waiting to happen. Park car, read sign: cool to park here. Return to car with ticket, read sign: no parking, huge fine. It's like those quick change speed limit signs the evil sheriff from the dukes of hazard would put up to generate speeding tickets.
- bigiain 11y agoMaybe time to write some OpenCV software for a dashcam - to record all changes/updates in the parking signs...
- JupiterMoon 11y agoIt doesn't need any smart features. Just a photo of the sign's state when you park. Then if you get a ticket that photo should be enough to appeal the ticket.
- userbinator 11y agoNow imagine a database of photos of each sign, taken in various states at various times of day, and add a little Photoshop or other image-editing program of choice... this is too exploitable, both by those looking for free parking and those wanting to extract more parking tickets.
- JupiterMoon 11y agoA photo of rotated or covered or gratified sign is already enough to appeal a parking ticket - but people don't generally do it unless it is real because... This would be fraud. Get caught and you go directly to jail (unless your really rich - in which case I guess you'll get off) for quite a long time. Like many things it is technically possible but legally a bad idea to actually do it.
- danieltillett 11y agoMore likely go to park and find the sign is vandalised and you have no idea of the restrictions in place. Talking about bad signs I once got a fine for parking on a road near the Randwick Racecourse (this is next to UNSW). It was fine to park there expect on race days. You would think this would be pretty easy to work this out as the race course was visible from the road and when they were running races there were horses and people everywhere. If only it was so simple - apparently race days could be race days at other race tracks meaning a race happening somewhere else meant you got a fine. How a normal person was supposed to know this is beyond me.
- barbs 11y agoWould've thought it'd be better (and cheaper) to implement this: http://priceonomics.com/a-designers-war-on-misleading-parking-signs/ http://priceonomics.com/a-designers-war-on-misleading-parkin...
- pbreit 11y agoNeither solution seems much better than what we mostly have already.
- jasonlotito 11y agoYeah, in either case, I'm still confused. The e-ink one shows examples that are confusing. The one linked to here in the comments shows a designers attempt at packing all that information in. The reality is, I want to know one thing: How long can I park here. Maybe the length of time is 0 (No parking). You show: No Parking. Maybe it's for the next 4 hours: Parking 4 Hours Remaining. Or maybe you put the time when it ends: Parking until 6 AM. Maybe it's only for people with tag 13-A: Parking 13-A Only. Either you can park someplace, or you can't. You can have the complete rules if people want to plan ahead, but they shouldn't be what people need to read while driving around trying to find a parking spot.
- masklinn 11y agoA variant of that is being trialed in LA: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-confusing-parking-signs-20150403-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-confusing-parkin...
- DrStalker 11y agoCompared to a sign like this it's much easier to read: http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2014/01/23/1226809/083282-c8e11858-83bd-11e3-90a9-2f6f5b597dd3.jpg http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2014/01/23/1226809/0832... The big downside is when you park you don't just need to know the conditions when you park, you need to know the conditions for the entire length of your intended stay. You also need confidence that the signs will remain unchanging throughout your stay because if the signs update and you get a ticket the burden of proof is going to fall on you to prove your innocence.
- txdv 11y agoMake a picture of it?
- nickonline 11y agoTake a picture of your car in the parking spot every time you park somewhere? Seems a little excessive?
- Frompo 11y agoThis concern is only relevant if you think that the only thing preventing the regulators from changing the signs is the technological hassle of doing it. If you rather believe than the signs change based on the need to accommodate a film crew for a few days like in LA, the this is a neutral change. In any case, analog signs are changes from time to time anyway, so the objection is not new in principle. The simplest solution is then use whatever method was used previously to resolve this.
- Cogito 11y agoI haven't been able to find much more information apart from the press release at http://www.digitalsignageconnection.com/australian-road-and-maritime-services-installs-traffic-signs-electronic-ink-850 http://www.digitalsignageconnection.com/australian-road-and-... From what I can see, nothing specifically states that the signs are intended to be changed extremely frequently, nor that the information displayed is strictly for right now. With good design and usage, issues like not knowing if you will be able to park in the signposted area in two hours time become less likely. The ability to change the signs frequently doesn't mean that they will. The examples shown tended to be things like * No parking during Sunday markets * No parking from 3pm - 11pm on a special event day Obviously these could be abused, or used poorly, but I wouldn't say that they are bad because of that fact.
- tomohawk 11y agoDefinitely could be abused. I once parked my car on a street with no parking restriction signs anywhere. I went back to the car to get something a few hours later and they were placing signs down the street. As soon as a sign was placed, they would ticket the cars nearby. I moved my car just in time. With this tech, they could do this at will. Probably correlated with whenever the people running the city want more money.
- Intermernet 11y agoDon't worry, it's probably hackable as well. Give it 6 months and someone will have modified these signs. Probably in a crude, old Nokia phone cabled to the back of the sign, method. Hopefully it will be seen as a useful signpost (no pun intended) for the ongoing challenge of distributing digital info to an, on average, trusting public. Don't be surprised if you see some unlimited parking in Sydney next April 1st.
- bradjohnson 11y agoI feel like that would require about as much effort as going out and replacing a non-hackable sign with a convincing homemade one.
- allendoerfer 11y agoI think parking signs are a rather low risk target. Insecure traffic lights could be potentially dangerous, especially combined with other attacks. Rule of thumb: If there is no Hollywood film where a terrorist attacks your target, probably neither will a real terrorist. Also obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- mprovost 11y agoSomeone famously did this in LA: http://jalopnik.com/5516635/the-secret-of-las-10-year-old-fake-freeway-sign http://jalopnik.com/5516635/the-secret-of-las-10-year-old-fa...
- 11y ago
- hussong 11y agoPipe dream: municipalities make parking permission data available over an API, app makers create an app that shows you the current rules for your location, you can figure out the situation at the push of a button and the data provided is legally binding.
- danieltillett 11y agoWhy would any municipality want this? The aim is to raise revenue and making it easier for people to avoid a fine is not going to help revenue. Pipe dream 2: The populace rises up and refuses to pay any fine unless the data is available via an API and legally binding.
- coob 11y agoOr a higher level of legislature mandates it… why does everything have to be a riot?
- danieltillett 11y agoI don’t know where I or anyone suggested a riot. The most effective social change comes when the people no longer passively obey unjust laws.
- jon-wood 11y agoDespite conspiracy theories its more likely that the aim is to avoid congestion at peak times, and control demand for parking, but hey, its a government policy, so has to be evil by default. Everyone should just be able to do whatever they like, and let the free market economy ensure only the rich live well.
- danieltillett 11y agoMaking such information is not going to affect any of the purported reasons for having parking restrictions it will only reduce the risk that someone will park somewhere by accident. If anything making the parking restrictions clearer and more accessible can only reduce the level of congestion since people won’t be parking somewhere they should not by accident. The only thing affected would be revenue.
- matevzmihalic 11y agoI work at Visionect and have helped develop the eink platform for these signs. They can be changed with whichever frequency is required, more frequently or less so (once a day etc). And while the technology is one thing, as mentioned before, good design is the one that can eliminate any confusion that people may have on how long the restrictions may last. There's more info on our website if you're interested: http://v.visionect.com/sydney_epaper_road_signs http://v.visionect.com/sydney_epaper_road_signs
- chippy 11y agoOddly, that link did not render anything for me. Removing the querystring made the article appear. https://www.visionect.com/blog/worlds-first-epaper-traffic-signs https://www.visionect.com/blog/worlds-first-epaper-traffic-s... Edits - hmm, not even that link when clicked from here renders anything. I have to manually refresh or copy and paste it to get things to show.
- VLM 11y ago"can eliminate any confusion" Don't the people buying and operating the signs have a substantial financial incentive to create confusion? I'm just saying, don't expect people to sabotage their own paychecks.
- some1else 11y agoThe company that provided these (Visionect) also sells affordable e-ink developer kits [1]. The best part is that you can build apps in plain HTML, JavaScript and CSS. Disclosure: I worked with Visionect a few years ago to develop an e-ink restaurant menu. [1] https://www.visionect.com/development_kits https://www.visionect.com/development_kits
- aleem 11y agoGot me excited there for a minute until I checked the price. I can't help but think this is way over-priced. The 6" DIY kit from Visionect is ~$600. The latest 6" Kindle with WiFi is ~$80 (on Prime Day it was going for ~$50). Given that it has WiFi and there are some Jailbreaks for Kindle you could get a Kindle to do this same thing. If you want better contrast you could upgrade to the Kindle Paperwhite for $120. That's anywhere from 8% to 20% of the cost of the Visionect system. EDIT: Turns out the Kindle can do quite a bit including running a web server, web browser, SSH and much more so this should be easily doable. [1]: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128704 http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128704
- some1else 11y agoYou do know that the Kindle is subsidized by book sales, right? That and the fact that Amazon has both economies of scale and a zero-profit/market-domination strategy. The Visionect kit is cheaper, more capable and better supported than comparable dev kits.
- dublinben 11y agoThe Kindle might be subsidized in a general sense, but Amazon does not sell the devices at a loss. The base hardware cost is roughly equal to the selling price.[0] I would expect something similar from a barebones developer kit. [0] https://www.mainstreet.com/article/exclusive-amazon-s-79-kindle-touch-costs-84-make https://www.mainstreet.com/article/exclusive-amazon-s-79-kin...
- ska 11y ago
- cstrat 11y agoBy the looks of the photos, none of the street signs are normal parking zone signs, but rather special event signage. Those are only used for special events and don't change very often. This is a good example for their use. I agree with what others have said about the risks and concerns if this were to be used for ALL parking signs.
- cstrat 11y agoBy the looks of the photos, none of the street signs are normal parking zone signs, but rather special event signage. Those are only used for special events and don't change very often. This is a good example for their use. I agree with what others have said about the risks and concerns if this were to be used for ALL parking signs.
- detritus 11y agosquints Public signage typically has high visual contrast, doesn't it? The dynamic, somewhat critical information these are displaying is tragically muddy and hard to resolve, even from some of these photos here. A shame. Before seeing the end-result, I thought it was a cracking-good idea.
- bradjohnson 11y agoI'm not really seeing your perspective, it seems clear to me. I'll reserve final judgement for if I ever see them in person, but from the three images in the article I saw no problems.
- vacri 11y agoIn that second photo, the e-ink contrast fails web accessibility standards. Background is #889294, darkest foreground I found was #5e6669 (most foreground was not this dark) http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/ http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/ Or easier: compare to the signs around it. It's much less readable. Traffic signs aren't like Funky Website Of The Month. It's not okay for traffic signs to just ignore inconvenient users - so even if they were skirting some visibility standards, it wouldn't be good enough. They need to be really clear, not barely passable (and this sign isn't even that). And this photo is reasonably lit, without overcast conditions, mist, or rain. People often forget to include those when discussing road-related things like speed limits or signage.
- bradjohnson 11y agoTraffic signs? Sure. But what was shown in the article was a replacement for confusing parking signs which would be much less critical for passing cars to immediately be able to discern. I really think that regardless of how much you need to squint to make out a parking sign it would still be better than some of those monstrosities that have about 20 exceptions depending on the time of day.
- vacri 11y ago
- Angostura 11y agoWhen I go driving on alpine roads, I frequently see 'warning ice' or 'warning deep snow' signs, which are quite amusing in summer. I've often thought that printing the signs using liquid crystal technology would be useful, so ice warnings would only be visible when the temperature was at least close to 0C
- btbuildem 11y agoFalling ice hazard is highest in the spring, with temperatures above zero and ice accumulated over winter.
- donatj 11y agoI seriously don't understand why such complicated parking rules are needed to begin with? I can understand a single (e.g. 9-5) set of times for Monday through Friday and a separate one for the weekend, but such more complex ones as I see it serve no real purpose other than ticketing people who have trouble interpreting the signs.
- noja 11y agoBecause politiks.
- theklub 11y agoPeople need jobs.
- techsupporter 11y agoBecause curb space in an urban environment is a very limited resource and the city government determines how the competing interests are going to share it. One set of signs I pass rather often in Seattle looks (and probably is) complicated, but the reasoning behind it makes some sense. It is against a yellow-painted curb and says: - No parking 6a-9a / 3p-7p except Sat/Sun/Hol - 30-minute loading only 9a-3p / 7p-10p except Sat/Sun/Hol - 3-minute loading only 9a-11a Sun - <----- No parking Why? The adjoining property is a large church that sits on what is now a major arterial route near businesses. In order, the restrictions allow for commute hours traffic in that lane, reserve a zone for deliveries during the rest of the hours in a weekday, reserve a zone for parishioners to get out at the door of the church, and foreclose parking that is too close to the corner and a fire hydrant. Parking is, implicitly, allowed all day on Saturday when commute hours aren't in effect, some of the businesses are closed and the remainder are receiving fewer/no deliveries, and the church isn't in session.
- vog 11y agoAfter seeing all those enthusiatic comments, I was very disappointed when I saw what this is actually about. I was expecting something like changing marks on the street, maybe even auto-rearranging parking lot marks. That's what I imagined "E-Ink" / "electronic ink" to be. However, it's just a display within a sign. Not sure about other cities, but at Berlin's highways, we have this for years. It is used to adjust speed limits to traffic, avoiding or dewarping traffic jams. It is also used to block lanes as needed, e.g. during the time tunnels are cleaned, without having to put up signs and moving them with the workers while cleaning. What is so spectacular about using same old idea for parking signs? Am I missing something?