5 ms·

Very startup centric. Maybe should say that in the title.

jen729w 11y ago
Very, very. It worries me sometimes - and I know we're on HN and that's the audience here, but still - that people see "a startup" as the one and only way. This will inevitably lead to pain and heartache for many. I've worked contract jobs through my 20 year career and have done very, very nicely out of it. (I started in the UK and am now in AU - our rates are healthy and consistent.) Now, with my 20 years' experience, am I thinking of branching out and doing my own thing? Sure. Would I have recommended that to my 18 year old self? Hell no.
- morgante 11y ago
  > Now, with my 20 years' experience, am I thinking of branching out and doing my own thing? Sure. Would I have recommended that to my 18 year old self? Hell no. Working at a startup you can also do very well for yourself.
  - peteretep 11y ago
    > Working at a startup you can also do very well for > yourself Sure, just like joining a rock band.
    - morgante 11y ago
      > Sure, just like joining a rock band. What? As far as I know, most early rock bands don't pay their musicians $150k+.
  - onion2k 11y ago
    Yes, but those who do are statistical outliers in a field of people who are underpaid and see very little money even if there's an exit at the end - you might get a $100k check but if you've been earning $50k below the market rate for 5 years that's not a very good deal. There are plenty of great reasons to work for a startup (challenging problems, freedom to work how you like, meeting smart people, learning huge amounts of tech very quickly, etc) but if you think it's a good way to get rich you are plain wrong. If you're a developer who wants lots of money go and work for a bank.
    - morgante 11y ago
      If you're making under-market at a startup, you're doing it wrong. Equity is compensation for increased risk and work, not for a subpar salary.
- aesthetics1 11y ago
  How do you get into something like that, if you don't mind me asking? What's your specialty, and where were you in your career path 20 years ago that set you up for it?
  - mostlystatic 11y ago
    In my experience (in the UK) you start by submitting your CV to loads of recruiters saying you are looking for contract roles. If they think they can make money from you they'll give you a call and ask for your rate etc. I'm not the OP, but I just do plain front-end development. Contract length can vary, sometimes it's one week in a digital agency, sometimes it's a few months in a large company. You can also find contracts that are 12months, and they can be extended after that. I was freelancing when I started out, so I had some income but was also available for full-time contract work during the day.
    - 100timesthis 11y ago
      >I was freelancing when I started out, so I had some income but was also available for full-time contract work during the day. and companies were cool with it? I'm trying to do the same (data scientist) but I only get offers for perm or full-time contracts.
      - mostlystatic 11y ago
        I was lucky to get a 3-day a week contract, but still had to do my freelance work in the evening/weekend for a bit.
  - jen729w 11y ago
    Sorry for the late reply, not sure this will ever be seen but just in case. I was lucky, in a way. I did a year at work as part of my degree (my 3rd year), got kicked out of my CS degree (BSc, York - I just didn't do any work, failed exams, had too much of a social life), and the place I was working took me back. Best part was I wasn't a "graduate" so my old boss told me to set up as a sole trader. 6 months later I'd finished what I had to do, and the guys I'd been working with mentioned they were off to Germany to continue the job. (Desktop refresh. Pretty good start for any contractor, teaches you all sorts of variety.) I asked, jokingly, "can I come?". Week later I was in Germany. That job lasted a year and a half and took me all over Europe, and that led to a similar role all around the world. I've been lucky. Lessons: be a nice, personable, helpful human. Say yes more than no. Realise who the customer is and make them happy. Don't forget about the person at the end of the chain: they matter. Be a jack of all trades rather than a master of one. Don't be afraid to move. Don't be afraid to be different. Enjoy yourself. I haven't had a job interview in 10 years, now. It's all on people I know, who know I'm good, who refer me to other people.
hkmurakami 11y ago
Well the argument of the post is that a well thought out technical career should necessarily land a person at a Startup early in their career. Given this position that the post is taking, adding "startup specific advice" to the title would conflict with the premise of the article. Now, said premise may very well be entirely wrong (I think the optimal career for most people is to be a lifer at Google), but isn't that what the comments here are for?
- BreakoutList 11y ago
  I'm curious to hear -- why is the optimal career for most people to be a lifer at Google?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - UK-AL 11y ago
    In terms of money and skills I guess
  - YorkianTones 11y ago
    As much as startups can "disrupt" by creating new businesses, big tech companies can also create entirely new products or businesses and when they attempt to do so they often succeed. Google has a good shot at eventually being successful with products like glass, self-driving cars, etc. Amazon is already succeeding with AWS and at some point will launch drone delivery. Even if you just own a small feature, it's fulfilling to work on large important products with high impact (legacy products too e.g. gmail). Plus, there is little risk and great payout guaranteed. Contrary to Thiel's comments, I think you're surrounded by brilliant people at a place like Google and will learn constantly and won't stagnate. The key is to not stay on the same team/product forever.
    - BreakoutList 11y ago
      I think that's definitely true if you're on a team like Glass v2 or self driving cars.
vonmoltke 11y ago
Not just startup-centric, but Valley startup-centric. I love how it assumes the reader has their pick of companies to work for. Kind of insulting to those of us outside the Valley who don't. :/
- jasonmcalacanis 11y ago
  actually, if you have great skills you have your pick.... you can get on a flight and go work for any of these companies!

Very, very. It worries me sometimes - and I know we're on HN and that's the audience here, but still - that people see "a startup" as the one and only way. This will inevitably lead to pain and heartache for many. I've worked contract jobs through my 20 year career and have done very, very nicely out of it. (I started in the UK and am now in AU - our rates are healthy and consistent.) Now, with my 20 years' experience, am I thinking of branching out and doing my own thing? Sure. Would I have recommended that to my 18 year old self? Hell no.

morgante 11y ago
> Now, with my 20 years' experience, am I thinking of branching out and doing my own thing? Sure. Would I have recommended that to my 18 year old self? Hell no. Working at a startup you can also do very well for yourself.
- peteretep 11y ago
  > Working at a startup you can also do very well for > yourself Sure, just like joining a rock band.
  - morgante 11y ago
    > Sure, just like joining a rock band. What? As far as I know, most early rock bands don't pay their musicians $150k+.
- onion2k 11y ago
  Yes, but those who do are statistical outliers in a field of people who are underpaid and see very little money even if there's an exit at the end - you might get a $100k check but if you've been earning $50k below the market rate for 5 years that's not a very good deal. There are plenty of great reasons to work for a startup (challenging problems, freedom to work how you like, meeting smart people, learning huge amounts of tech very quickly, etc) but if you think it's a good way to get rich you are plain wrong. If you're a developer who wants lots of money go and work for a bank.
  - morgante 11y ago
    If you're making under-market at a startup, you're doing it wrong. Equity is compensation for increased risk and work, not for a subpar salary.
aesthetics1 11y ago
How do you get into something like that, if you don't mind me asking? What's your specialty, and where were you in your career path 20 years ago that set you up for it?
- mostlystatic 11y ago
  In my experience (in the UK) you start by submitting your CV to loads of recruiters saying you are looking for contract roles. If they think they can make money from you they'll give you a call and ask for your rate etc. I'm not the OP, but I just do plain front-end development. Contract length can vary, sometimes it's one week in a digital agency, sometimes it's a few months in a large company. You can also find contracts that are 12months, and they can be extended after that. I was freelancing when I started out, so I had some income but was also available for full-time contract work during the day.
  - 100timesthis 11y ago
    >I was freelancing when I started out, so I had some income but was also available for full-time contract work during the day. and companies were cool with it? I'm trying to do the same (data scientist) but I only get offers for perm or full-time contracts.
    - mostlystatic 11y ago
      I was lucky to get a 3-day a week contract, but still had to do my freelance work in the evening/weekend for a bit.
- jen729w 11y ago
  Sorry for the late reply, not sure this will ever be seen but just in case. I was lucky, in a way. I did a year at work as part of my degree (my 3rd year), got kicked out of my CS degree (BSc, York - I just didn't do any work, failed exams, had too much of a social life), and the place I was working took me back. Best part was I wasn't a "graduate" so my old boss told me to set up as a sole trader. 6 months later I'd finished what I had to do, and the guys I'd been working with mentioned they were off to Germany to continue the job. (Desktop refresh. Pretty good start for any contractor, teaches you all sorts of variety.) I asked, jokingly, "can I come?". Week later I was in Germany. That job lasted a year and a half and took me all over Europe, and that led to a similar role all around the world. I've been lucky. Lessons: be a nice, personable, helpful human. Say yes more than no. Realise who the customer is and make them happy. Don't forget about the person at the end of the chain: they matter. Be a jack of all trades rather than a master of one. Don't be afraid to move. Don't be afraid to be different. Enjoy yourself. I haven't had a job interview in 10 years, now. It's all on people I know, who know I'm good, who refer me to other people.

hkmurakami 11y ago

Well the argument of the post is that a well thought out technical career should necessarily land a person at a Startup early in their career. Given this position that the post is taking, adding "startup specific advice" to the title would conflict with the premise of the article. Now, said premise may very well be entirely wrong (I think the optimal career for most people is to be a lifer at Google), but isn't that what the comments here are for?

BreakoutList 11y ago
I'm curious to hear -- why is the optimal career for most people to be a lifer at Google?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- UK-AL 11y ago
  In terms of money and skills I guess
- YorkianTones 11y ago
  As much as startups can "disrupt" by creating new businesses, big tech companies can also create entirely new products or businesses and when they attempt to do so they often succeed. Google has a good shot at eventually being successful with products like glass, self-driving cars, etc. Amazon is already succeeding with AWS and at some point will launch drone delivery. Even if you just own a small feature, it's fulfilling to work on large important products with high impact (legacy products too e.g. gmail). Plus, there is little risk and great payout guaranteed. Contrary to Thiel's comments, I think you're surrounded by brilliant people at a place like Google and will learn constantly and won't stagnate. The key is to not stay on the same team/product forever.
  - BreakoutList 11y ago
    I think that's definitely true if you're on a team like Glass v2 or self driving cars.

vonmoltke 11y ago

Not just startup-centric, but Valley startup-centric. I love how it assumes the reader has their pick of companies to work for. Kind of insulting to those of us outside the Valley who don't. :/

jasonmcalacanis 11y ago
actually, if you have great skills you have your pick.... you can get on a flight and go work for any of these companies!