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What if I want a car I can choose to drive occasionally because I like driving? Will I have to buy a manual and a self-drive? (Although to be fair, these self-d

What if I want a car I can choose to drive occasionally because I like driving? Will I have to buy a manual and a self-drive? (Although to be fair, these self-driving cars would probably suck to drive since they are not designed for driver pleasure)

stephengillie 11y ago
What if I want an oven I can choose to grill with because I like grilling? Will I have to buy an outdoor grill and grill by hand? (Although to be fair, these electric ovens would probably suck to grill with since they are not designed for charcoal grilling enthusiasts.)
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  I think you are engaging in a false analogy here. Comparing a grill to an oven is like comparing a passenger car to a panel truck: they are in the same broad class of thing but serve different purposes. A better analogy would be that of a grill that can use gas or charcoal as the fuel; different means to the same purpose.
  - stephengillie 11y ago
    Yes, I am engaging in a false analogy. My intention was to humorously showcase specialized tools at a much further level of differentiation. And a passenger car is as different from a panel (flatbed) truck as a hand-driven gasoline car is from a solar-powered self-driving car. I was attempting to highlight that these tools have nearly equivalent purposes, but the educated consumer would have a definite preference for one or the other, depending on plans and situations.
    - vonmoltke 11y ago
      > And a passenger car is as different from a panel (flatbed) truck as a hand-driven gasoline car is from a solar-powered self-driving car. I disagree. The function of a panel truck is the transport of bulky and heavy materials. The function of a passenger car is the transport of people with fairly small amounts of materials. Changing the power plant or control system does not change these fundamental functions or fundamental design decisions that go into the system as a whole. > I was attempting to highlight that these tools have nearly equivalent purposes They don't, just like a passenger car and panel truck do not have nearly equivalent purposes. Yes, an oven and a grill both cook food. A passenger car and a panel truck both move people and items. Each of these is specialized to cover a certain subset of the problem space within those areas, though. Making one better at covering its problem space does not change what it fundamentally is, and self-driving vehicles are just an improvement in covering the existing problem space.
      - stephengillie 11y ago
        My apologies for coming up with an imperfect analogy. In the future, I will endeavor to find a perfect analogy before I attempt to use it humorously. Thank you for taking the time to show me the error of my ways. What would HN be without people like you to clear up analogical inconsistencies?
        rurounijones 11y ago
        To be fair; as the OP I didn't find the original comment humourous but dismissive and therefore rather insulting (Hence I never bothered to follow up) as well as many issues with the "Analogy".
MereInterest 11y ago
Then you can get a specialty car designed to have manual controls. The same way you could get a horse-pulled carriage or a dogsled. It just won't be the standard product that everybody uses.
ska 11y ago
There may well be "hybrids" for a while (think stop the car and convert to manual mode, not switch on the fly). If self driving cars really take off, I suspect it will become a niche market pretty quickly due to pressure from a) higher costs of vehicle, b) substantially higher insurance rates and possibly c) restricted roads (e.g. major interstates switch to auto only). Perhaps you'll have status symbol sedans with a manual mode nearly nobody uses, and a number of other options that become more of an expensive hobby than a primary means of transportation. We are a ways off from this technologically, but if the tech problems can be solved, it's pretty hard to imagine it not happening.
KingMob 11y ago
Eventually, people who like driving will be relegated to closed-track courses where any accidents are minimized and occur only with people who have signed waivers. In short, take up NASCAR. People who drive manually and risk others' safety for their own pleasure can expect to be stopped, first with lawsuits, then with laws.
nsxwolf 11y ago
Eventually the statistics will make their way to the lawmakers and the "if it saves just one life" logic will put an end to your driving hobby. It's inevitable. This will eventually extend to anything fun that humans do today. Any time a machine is shown to be more competent than a human at something, humans will no longer be allowed to engage in that activity.

stephengillie 11y ago

What if I want an oven I can choose to grill with because I like grilling? Will I have to buy an outdoor grill and grill by hand? (Although to be fair, these electric ovens would probably suck to grill with since they are not designed for charcoal grilling enthusiasts.)

vonmoltke 11y ago
I think you are engaging in a false analogy here. Comparing a grill to an oven is like comparing a passenger car to a panel truck: they are in the same broad class of thing but serve different purposes. A better analogy would be that of a grill that can use gas or charcoal as the fuel; different means to the same purpose.
- stephengillie 11y ago
  Yes, I am engaging in a false analogy. My intention was to humorously showcase specialized tools at a much further level of differentiation. And a passenger car is as different from a panel (flatbed) truck as a hand-driven gasoline car is from a solar-powered self-driving car. I was attempting to highlight that these tools have nearly equivalent purposes, but the educated consumer would have a definite preference for one or the other, depending on plans and situations.
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    > And a passenger car is as different from a panel (flatbed) truck as a hand-driven gasoline car is from a solar-powered self-driving car. I disagree. The function of a panel truck is the transport of bulky and heavy materials. The function of a passenger car is the transport of people with fairly small amounts of materials. Changing the power plant or control system does not change these fundamental functions or fundamental design decisions that go into the system as a whole. > I was attempting to highlight that these tools have nearly equivalent purposes They don't, just like a passenger car and panel truck do not have nearly equivalent purposes. Yes, an oven and a grill both cook food. A passenger car and a panel truck both move people and items. Each of these is specialized to cover a certain subset of the problem space within those areas, though. Making one better at covering its problem space does not change what it fundamentally is, and self-driving vehicles are just an improvement in covering the existing problem space.
    - stephengillie 11y ago
      My apologies for coming up with an imperfect analogy. In the future, I will endeavor to find a perfect analogy before I attempt to use it humorously. Thank you for taking the time to show me the error of my ways. What would HN be without people like you to clear up analogical inconsistencies?
      - rurounijones 11y ago
        To be fair; as the OP I didn't find the original comment humourous but dismissive and therefore rather insulting (Hence I never bothered to follow up) as well as many issues with the "Analogy".

MereInterest 11y ago

Then you can get a specialty car designed to have manual controls. The same way you could get a horse-pulled carriage or a dogsled. It just won't be the standard product that everybody uses.

ska 11y ago

There may well be "hybrids" for a while (think stop the car and convert to manual mode, not switch on the fly). If self driving cars really take off, I suspect it will become a niche market pretty quickly due to pressure from a) higher costs of vehicle, b) substantially higher insurance rates and possibly c) restricted roads (e.g. major interstates switch to auto only). Perhaps you'll have status symbol sedans with a manual mode nearly nobody uses, and a number of other options that become more of an expensive hobby than a primary means of transportation. We are a ways off from this technologically, but if the tech problems can be solved, it's pretty hard to imagine it not happening.

KingMob 11y ago

Eventually, people who like driving will be relegated to closed-track courses where any accidents are minimized and occur only with people who have signed waivers. In short, take up NASCAR. People who drive manually and risk others' safety for their own pleasure can expect to be stopped, first with lawsuits, then with laws.

nsxwolf 11y ago

Eventually the statistics will make their way to the lawmakers and the "if it saves just one life" logic will put an end to your driving hobby. It's inevitable. This will eventually extend to anything fun that humans do today. Any time a machine is shown to be more competent than a human at something, humans will no longer be allowed to engage in that activity.