8 ms·

Announcing .NET Framework 4.6

142 points by ScottWRobinson 11y ago

hvs 11y ago
I really like the .NET Framework, so this is firmly tongue-in-cheek, but I found this amusing: Switch.MS.Internal.DoNotApplyLayoutRoundingToMarginsAndBorderThickness=false
- s_kilk 11y ago
  Yikes, that's horrible. Both for it's length and the double-negative.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - moogly 11y ago
    Well, what's the alternative? The length at least is descriptive, there's no question about what it does. Double negatives are unfortunate, but that all depends on what the default value previously was (in the event that there actually was no flag like this, it definitely makes sense to make the default false, and then the language follows). But sure, maybe PreventApply... would've been better. Then again, PreventApply... sounds weird, and should probably be PreventApplying..., but, ehh, naming is hard.
    - caskance 11y ago
      Disable or suppress would work fine.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
  - CmonDev 11y ago
    Really? Stay away from Java then :): HasThisTypePatternTriedToSneakInSomeGenericOrParameterizedTypePatternMatchingStuffAnywhereVisitor http://grepcode.com/file/repository.springsource.com/org.aspectj/com.springsource.org.aspectj.weaver/1.6.3/org/aspectj/weaver/patterns/HasThisTypePatternTriedToSneakInSomeGenericOrParameterizedTypePatternMatchingStuffAnywhereVisitor.java http://grepcode.com/file/repository.springsource.com/org.asp...
    - tragic 11y ago
      Damn, that must have been a long day at the office.
    - bitmapbrother 11y ago
      That's from a 3rd party library, though.
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      You forgot the best part. public boolean wellHasItThen/*?*/() { return ohYesItHas; }
      - hobarrera 11y ago
        I honestly though you and gp were just making it up exaggerating. This is even more absurd than made-up examples I've seen. And it's real. I'm unsure if I should laugh or cry.
  - nhebb 11y ago
    > the double-negative Just speculating, but this might be a fail safe since bool's default to false in .NET.
sanjeetsuhag 11y ago
> High DPI support in WPF is now better. Its about time.
- Pxtl 11y ago
  I'd actually like to see a focus on low-DPI support, for large touch-screen low-res interfaces like smartboards.
- hobarrera 11y ago
  "better" means "not yet finished, but we've started" in my book. Which is quite quite sad. Why aren't windows' GUI elements all vectorized by now?
  - ygra 11y ago
    WPF actually is, but apparently not everything in code is measured in WPF's quasi-pixels, apparently, so a few spots may look off. That said, none of the things they fixed looked especially horrible before. I've seen much worse in other toolkits.
rjusher 11y ago
I am really curious at how is the scene for .NET developers, with the rise of things like nw.js(node-webkit) and electron(github's atom shell). I do know that the framework is stronger and more test proven but the traction this type of tools are earning is important. Will the .net framework will conquer the heart of developers with the release of some of their projects as open source, and will create the best cross platform desktop development kit? Or is it doomed to be a Windows only beutiful thing.
- Encosia 11y ago
  In terms of desktop development, it's important to keep in mind that Windows is still what's running on ~90% of desktops and laptops outside a few bubbles. I doubt your average desktop .NET developer has spent much time thinking about those sort of cross-platform approaches, compared to how much the web has eroded the market for rich client apps.
- leoedin 11y ago
  If you can live with the Windows only target, developing desktop apps in .NET/WPF using Visual Studio is incredibly pain free in a way that I've never found developing HTML websites. Maybe those frameworks take some of the pain away, but I can't imagine that ease of development is anywhere near that of WPF. It helps that C# is a very nice language with a really great standard library.
  - rjusher 11y ago
    I do understand that .net is far more powerfull, far more everything, but the best tool not always is the one that conquers the world. I would truthfully love to see Microsoft bring WPF to other platforms.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    Webapps still haven't catched up with the 90's Delphi experience of doing desktop apps.
    - mike_hearn 11y ago
tobz 11y ago
Switching to RyuJIT is great. Also, the SIMD support being a first-class citizen in the runtime and BCL seems huge for gaming and number-crunching related applications.
- CmonDev 11y ago
  > huge for gaming Not really, as they have no story for Mono not to mention ARM NEON support.
  - TillE 11y ago
    Is "story" the new hip substitute buzzword for "solution"? I really don't understand why I've started seeing it used in weird contexts lately.
    - skywhopper 11y ago
      I think it sorta means "use case" and comes from Agile development, but the connotation is slightly different. Complaining about "hip substitute buzzwords" is very hip, though. Thumbs up.
      - dragonwriter 11y ago
        > I think it sorta means "use case" and comes from Agile development That's one use, but the use of "story" upthread is a different common sense that is actually more like "solution" (and much more of a marketing term) than the requirements sense of "story" used in some development methodologies.
    - OldSchoolJohnny 11y ago
      Marketing buzzwords should not be used by programmers who want to be taken seriously.
      - rquantz 11y ago
        Yes, or as I like to say, "MB SNBU by P ww2b TS"
maxlybbert 11y ago
> New in C# 6! Enables a concise syntax for calling static methods without type qualification. Essentially you still have to put your functions in a class, but you're allowed to call them without the class (if desired). Kind of like "free functions" in C. I like C#, but it looks like the team is running out of ideas. Or, perhaps, they realized that the "everything must go in a class" mantra was a bad idea.
- runfaster2000 11y ago
  You might take a look at the C# 7 design notes: https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn/issues/created_by/MadsTorgersen https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn/issues/created_by/MadsTorge...
- edgyswingset 11y ago
  I think you're underestimating the power of static includes. A benefit is being able to add a dialect of sorts to your codebase to give it some functional flair. One person took this to the extreme[0]. [0] https://github.com/louthy/language-ext https://github.com/louthy/language-ext
  - maxlybbert 11y ago
    Or the people who thought "everything must be attached to a class" were overestimating the value of that idea.
- Moto7451 11y ago
  I don't think it's that they've run out of ideas, it's that they're being picky with what they implement as C# is fairly modern but also fairly mature. This isn't like the C++ revolution of the past few years where they've been adding new, interesting, (and sometimes dramatically different) features to a decades old language. Regardless, this change is very handy. Even if "everything must go in a class" is a bad idea (I think it's fine), the end result of this change, from the library consumer's standpoint, is the same as having functions defined outside a class but within a namespace. It's a great pragmatic change that doesn't rock the boat much. In line with that are the other mostly minor but time saving changes like simplified null coalescing. public static string Truncate(string value, int length) { return value?.Substring(0, Math.Min(value.Length, length)); } In previous versions this looks like: public static string Truncate(string value, int length) { return value != null ? value.Substring(0, Math.Min(value.Length, length)) : null; } Not a huge change, but a very handy one to have.
rottyguy 11y ago
It really does put a big fat grin on my face to see C#/.Net get love here. I've been using it for years and love what it has evolved to. But the msft bashing on hn (thus, by default, all ms products, with maybe the exception of F#) was really hard on the proverbial soul for the longest time. I hope to one day be able to natively do C# on linux under a vs parity ide (the tools are really great).
- mixmastamyk 11y ago
  MS has definitely made strides the last few years. Still, they haven't given up on their product-key nonsense and their unfortunate cozy relationship with govt-surveillance types which are incongruous with open platforms. There's progress left to be made before I will consider their products again.
- noblethrasher 11y ago
  C# gets more love than not on HN. Even my suggestion of VB as an advanced-yet-approachable language ended up being voted to the top of a recent thread[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9908446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9908446

142 points by ScottWRobinson 11y ago

hvs 11y ago

I really like the .NET Framework, so this is firmly tongue-in-cheek, but I found this amusing: Switch.MS.Internal.DoNotApplyLayoutRoundingToMarginsAndBorderThickness=false

s_kilk 11y ago
Yikes, that's horrible. Both for it's length and the double-negative.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- moogly 11y ago
  Well, what's the alternative? The length at least is descriptive, there's no question about what it does. Double negatives are unfortunate, but that all depends on what the default value previously was (in the event that there actually was no flag like this, it definitely makes sense to make the default false, and then the language follows). But sure, maybe PreventApply... would've been better. Then again, PreventApply... sounds weird, and should probably be PreventApplying..., but, ehh, naming is hard.
  - caskance 11y ago
    Disable or suppress would work fine.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- CmonDev 11y ago
  Really? Stay away from Java then :): HasThisTypePatternTriedToSneakInSomeGenericOrParameterizedTypePatternMatchingStuffAnywhereVisitor http://grepcode.com/file/repository.springsource.com/org.aspectj/com.springsource.org.aspectj.weaver/1.6.3/org/aspectj/weaver/patterns/HasThisTypePatternTriedToSneakInSomeGenericOrParameterizedTypePatternMatchingStuffAnywhereVisitor.java http://grepcode.com/file/repository.springsource.com/org.asp...
  - tragic 11y ago
    Damn, that must have been a long day at the office.
  - bitmapbrother 11y ago
    That's from a 3rd party library, though.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    You forgot the best part. public boolean wellHasItThen/*?*/() { return ohYesItHas; }
    - hobarrera 11y ago
      I honestly though you and gp were just making it up exaggerating. This is even more absurd than made-up examples I've seen. And it's real. I'm unsure if I should laugh or cry.
- nhebb 11y ago
  > the double-negative Just speculating, but this might be a fail safe since bool's default to false in .NET.

sanjeetsuhag 11y ago

> High DPI support in WPF is now better. Its about time.

Pxtl 11y ago
I'd actually like to see a focus on low-DPI support, for large touch-screen low-res interfaces like smartboards.
hobarrera 11y ago
"better" means "not yet finished, but we've started" in my book. Which is quite quite sad. Why aren't windows' GUI elements all vectorized by now?
- ygra 11y ago
  WPF actually is, but apparently not everything in code is measured in WPF's quasi-pixels, apparently, so a few spots may look off. That said, none of the things they fixed looked especially horrible before. I've seen much worse in other toolkits.

rjusher 11y ago

I am really curious at how is the scene for .NET developers, with the rise of things like nw.js(node-webkit) and electron(github's atom shell). I do know that the framework is stronger and more test proven but the traction this type of tools are earning is important. Will the .net framework will conquer the heart of developers with the release of some of their projects as open source, and will create the best cross platform desktop development kit? Or is it doomed to be a Windows only beutiful thing.

Encosia 11y ago
In terms of desktop development, it's important to keep in mind that Windows is still what's running on ~90% of desktops and laptops outside a few bubbles. I doubt your average desktop .NET developer has spent much time thinking about those sort of cross-platform approaches, compared to how much the web has eroded the market for rich client apps.
leoedin 11y ago
If you can live with the Windows only target, developing desktop apps in .NET/WPF using Visual Studio is incredibly pain free in a way that I've never found developing HTML websites. Maybe those frameworks take some of the pain away, but I can't imagine that ease of development is anywhere near that of WPF. It helps that C# is a very nice language with a really great standard library.
- rjusher 11y ago
  I do understand that .net is far more powerfull, far more everything, but the best tool not always is the one that conquers the world. I would truthfully love to see Microsoft bring WPF to other platforms.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Webapps still haven't catched up with the 90's Delphi experience of doing desktop apps.
  - mike_hearn 11y ago

tobz 11y ago

Switching to RyuJIT is great. Also, the SIMD support being a first-class citizen in the runtime and BCL seems huge for gaming and number-crunching related applications.

CmonDev 11y ago
> huge for gaming Not really, as they have no story for Mono not to mention ARM NEON support.
- TillE 11y ago
  Is "story" the new hip substitute buzzword for "solution"? I really don't understand why I've started seeing it used in weird contexts lately.
  - skywhopper 11y ago
    I think it sorta means "use case" and comes from Agile development, but the connotation is slightly different. Complaining about "hip substitute buzzwords" is very hip, though. Thumbs up.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > I think it sorta means "use case" and comes from Agile development That's one use, but the use of "story" upthread is a different common sense that is actually more like "solution" (and much more of a marketing term) than the requirements sense of "story" used in some development methodologies.
  - OldSchoolJohnny 11y ago
    Marketing buzzwords should not be used by programmers who want to be taken seriously.
    - rquantz 11y ago
      Yes, or as I like to say, "MB SNBU by P ww2b TS"

maxlybbert 11y ago

> New in C# 6! Enables a concise syntax for calling static methods without type qualification. Essentially you still have to put your functions in a class, but you're allowed to call them without the class (if desired). Kind of like "free functions" in C. I like C#, but it looks like the team is running out of ideas. Or, perhaps, they realized that the "everything must go in a class" mantra was a bad idea.

runfaster2000 11y ago
You might take a look at the C# 7 design notes: https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn/issues/created_by/MadsTorgersen https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn/issues/created_by/MadsTorge...
edgyswingset 11y ago
I think you're underestimating the power of static includes. A benefit is being able to add a dialect of sorts to your codebase to give it some functional flair. One person took this to the extreme[0]. [0] https://github.com/louthy/language-ext https://github.com/louthy/language-ext
- maxlybbert 11y ago
  Or the people who thought "everything must be attached to a class" were overestimating the value of that idea.
Moto7451 11y ago
I don't think it's that they've run out of ideas, it's that they're being picky with what they implement as C# is fairly modern but also fairly mature. This isn't like the C++ revolution of the past few years where they've been adding new, interesting, (and sometimes dramatically different) features to a decades old language. Regardless, this change is very handy. Even if "everything must go in a class" is a bad idea (I think it's fine), the end result of this change, from the library consumer's standpoint, is the same as having functions defined outside a class but within a namespace. It's a great pragmatic change that doesn't rock the boat much. In line with that are the other mostly minor but time saving changes like simplified null coalescing. public static string Truncate(string value, int length) { return value?.Substring(0, Math.Min(value.Length, length)); } In previous versions this looks like: public static string Truncate(string value, int length) { return value != null ? value.Substring(0, Math.Min(value.Length, length)) : null; } Not a huge change, but a very handy one to have.

rottyguy 11y ago

It really does put a big fat grin on my face to see C#/.Net get love here. I've been using it for years and love what it has evolved to. But the msft bashing on hn (thus, by default, all ms products, with maybe the exception of F#) was really hard on the proverbial soul for the longest time. I hope to one day be able to natively do C# on linux under a vs parity ide (the tools are really great).

mixmastamyk 11y ago
MS has definitely made strides the last few years. Still, they haven't given up on their product-key nonsense and their unfortunate cozy relationship with govt-surveillance types which are incongruous with open platforms. There's progress left to be made before I will consider their products again.
noblethrasher 11y ago
C# gets more love than not on HN. Even my suggestion of VB as an advanced-yet-approachable language ended up being voted to the top of a recent thread[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9908446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9908446