5 ms·

How the hell do these people think that kind of behaviour is even remotely appropriate? Maybe it's just German privacy laws speaking, but I find the idea of a

by pluma 11y ago

How the hell do these people think that kind of behaviour is even remotely appropriate? Maybe it's just German privacy laws speaking, but I find the idea of a landlord asking for your Twitter handle (or stalking you on Facebook) appalling.

TodPunk 11y ago
"I don't like X unenforceable thing" is the mark of our generation. Every tweet is public, and if anyone thinks they've protected them somehow, that is both unlikely to be true in all cases and definitely is missing the point that making your tweets private is a different statement entirely. This isn't even anything new. We used to ask for references, and we'd follow up further if the stakes were high enough. I got interviewed by a police officer from another city because my neighbor had applied to the department. Said neighbor didn't know that everyone in his life they could get a hold of would be asked questions about him, but it makes sense. Privacy is so rarely what we think it is, and the new generations (of which I'm a part) have so very little shared understanding of the consequences of doing something publically in a world where all of it is likely recorded and shared in a nicely indexed format. The answer to this is not regulation or other bullshit feel-good answers. The answer, as it so often is, is education. I realize that is going to help very few people, but then again, regulation on something as ambiguous as this will help 0.
- pluma 11y ago
  Except this kind of behaviour is very likely to be illegal in Germany. Sure, violation is hard to prove if it isn't blatant but this kind of regulation prevents the behaviour from becoming socially acceptable. Case in point: try asking an employee in Germany to give you a urine sample. There are very few jobs where a legal case can be made for mandatory drug testing and even fewer where the employer is allowed to receive medical information. It is my understanding that in the US photos on resumes are generally frowned upon and often sufficient grounds for rejection because of the high risk of anti-discrimination litigation. How can it then be acceptable for a landlord to take your social media accounts into consideration before making a decision? Yes, public social media content is public, but the same argument can be made about anything you do in public. Yet nobody would think it acceptable to follow you around in public and take careful note of everything you do or say in the open. That the Internet makes the digital equivalent of this behaviour easier doesn't mean it becomes more appropriate. But such ideas of basic decency and common courtesy appear to be lost on the generation that made "doxing" and revenge porn a thing.
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    lost on the generation that made "doxing" and revenge porn a thing Ostensibly, "revenge porn" dates back at least to some of Hustler's columns in the 1980s. The practice of spreading pornographic images without the model's consent is doubtlessly much older. "Doxing" is simply leaking one's personal information over the Internet. It's not like public outings have never been done before, only the medium is different this time. Doxing but only leaking to a client is basically the entire job of a private investigator, since the 19th century. Basic decency and common courtesy were lost long before us Millennials, I'm afraid.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  > "I don't like X unenforceable thing" is the mark of our generation. A ban of this sort of thing could easily be enforced. They already prohibit discrimination, and there's already a body of precedent to help adjudicate grey areas. Make it a civil rights violation for landlords to ask for social media handles in applications. Then anyone who wants this kind of anonymity can simply avoid tying their real name to the service. As social media posts could be used to glean protected information, I don't think it's even be that hard politically to get such a law passed in many states.
  - mc32 11y ago
    What civil right would the lessor be violating, I'm curious. I would be taken aback by being asked for social media identities, but I can't imagine what civil right asking for that would violate. I imagine it'd be similar to banning asking for phone number or social media handles of someone you're trying to chat up for fear it could lead to harassment. Badness can only happen with what they do with the information, not the information itself.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      > What civil right would the lessor be violating, I'm curious. Privacy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy
      - pluma 11y ago
        Aw, spoilsport. How is the Valley meant to disrupt markets if they have to respect basic rights like these?
        vinceguidry 11y ago
        It's not the Valley that has to respect rights, it's landlords.
      - mc32 11y ago
        Can it be claimed information published on the www for everyone to see as "private"? It's like saying my name is private. Moreover, when they do background checks they get private information on me which I would actually have to pay for even when the information is about me. I don't think its as clear cut as you make it out to be.
roel_v 11y ago
? Do you think people who are handing you the keys to at least 100k worth of property, with 2 months rent as a deposit if that, do not want to know who they're renting to?
- pluma 11y ago
  Because trawling your social media profiles is the only way to find out the relevant bits of information to base such a decision on? I wonder how landlords have dealt with this problem all that time before we had social media. The words "false dichotomy" come to my mind. By your logic landlords are just handing contracts out at random if they can't stalk you online.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    You're going too far in the opposite direction. It's simply another datapoint. > I wonder how landlords have dealt with this problem all that time before we had social media. They would ask for your previous landlords, and possibly call them for references. Maybe there was just more damage done back in those days, which is now preventable. I don't think they pay people to stalk social media for fun, there's probably a legitimate business practice behind it. Whether that improvement in their business performance is worth the loss of privacy is an open question and worth debate. > By your logic landlords are just handing contracts out at random if they can't stalk you online. What? They didn't say that. Don't put words into the parent's mouth. Strawmen are really poor argument opponents.
  - roel_v 11y ago
    No not the only, but an accessible and easy one. And yes I've turned down prospective renters over what I found out about them online, which I wouldn't have found out 10 years ago.
- Retric 11y ago
  Insurance... it's a thing.
  - roel_v 11y ago
wdewind 11y ago
As someone looking for an apartment in NYC right now, who has lived here for edit: the entire time social media has existed, this has never happened to me or anyone I know. I don't think it's a "thing," as the article implies. Edit: 26 years -> the entire time social media has existed, to please the pedantry.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  >> "who has lived here for 26 years" I don't think that part matters too much considering social media in its current form wasn't really around for most of that time :)
  - wil421 11y ago
    What you were never asked for your AOL username when you were trying to rent a house or get a job?
akgerber 11y ago
I don't think the people requesting her information are landlords so much as leaseholders whose home she would be subletting, and they are concerned about subletting to someone who would destroy all of their property. Standard New York landlords who are leasing empty apartments as a business just run a credit check— they'd probably exposing themselves to problems under fair housing laws if they asked for much more.
- brixon 11y ago
  Agreed, renting an apartment is a business (most of the time), but subletting is a personal transaction. A business cannot discriminate outside of ability to pay the requested cost for the service/product. An individual can discriminate all day long. Where I used to live you were not a business if you had 3 or fewer rentals, but you were a business with 4+ rentals.
qyv 11y ago
Anyone who posts anything online using their real identity or anything associated to their real identity, needs to understand that it is now potentially publicly tied to them indefinitely. Do you think that when you apply for a job your employer doesn't look at your social media? The private sector uses social media data extensively when making judgment calls on individuals, and the scope of this is only getting larger.

by pluma 11y ago

TodPunk 11y ago

"I don't like X unenforceable thing" is the mark of our generation. Every tweet is public, and if anyone thinks they've protected them somehow, that is both unlikely to be true in all cases and definitely is missing the point that making your tweets private is a different statement entirely. This isn't even anything new. We used to ask for references, and we'd follow up further if the stakes were high enough. I got interviewed by a police officer from another city because my neighbor had applied to the department. Said neighbor didn't know that everyone in his life they could get a hold of would be asked questions about him, but it makes sense. Privacy is so rarely what we think it is, and the new generations (of which I'm a part) have so very little shared understanding of the consequences of doing something publically in a world where all of it is likely recorded and shared in a nicely indexed format. The answer to this is not regulation or other bullshit feel-good answers. The answer, as it so often is, is education. I realize that is going to help very few people, but then again, regulation on something as ambiguous as this will help 0.

pluma 11y ago
Except this kind of behaviour is very likely to be illegal in Germany. Sure, violation is hard to prove if it isn't blatant but this kind of regulation prevents the behaviour from becoming socially acceptable. Case in point: try asking an employee in Germany to give you a urine sample. There are very few jobs where a legal case can be made for mandatory drug testing and even fewer where the employer is allowed to receive medical information. It is my understanding that in the US photos on resumes are generally frowned upon and often sufficient grounds for rejection because of the high risk of anti-discrimination litigation. How can it then be acceptable for a landlord to take your social media accounts into consideration before making a decision? Yes, public social media content is public, but the same argument can be made about anything you do in public. Yet nobody would think it acceptable to follow you around in public and take careful note of everything you do or say in the open. That the Internet makes the digital equivalent of this behaviour easier doesn't mean it becomes more appropriate. But such ideas of basic decency and common courtesy appear to be lost on the generation that made "doxing" and revenge porn a thing.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  lost on the generation that made "doxing" and revenge porn a thing Ostensibly, "revenge porn" dates back at least to some of Hustler's columns in the 1980s. The practice of spreading pornographic images without the model's consent is doubtlessly much older. "Doxing" is simply leaking one's personal information over the Internet. It's not like public outings have never been done before, only the medium is different this time. Doxing but only leaking to a client is basically the entire job of a private investigator, since the 19th century. Basic decency and common courtesy were lost long before us Millennials, I'm afraid.
vinceguidry 11y ago
> "I don't like X unenforceable thing" is the mark of our generation. A ban of this sort of thing could easily be enforced. They already prohibit discrimination, and there's already a body of precedent to help adjudicate grey areas. Make it a civil rights violation for landlords to ask for social media handles in applications. Then anyone who wants this kind of anonymity can simply avoid tying their real name to the service. As social media posts could be used to glean protected information, I don't think it's even be that hard politically to get such a law passed in many states.
- mc32 11y ago
  What civil right would the lessor be violating, I'm curious. I would be taken aback by being asked for social media identities, but I can't imagine what civil right asking for that would violate. I imagine it'd be similar to banning asking for phone number or social media handles of someone you're trying to chat up for fear it could lead to harassment. Badness can only happen with what they do with the information, not the information itself.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    > What civil right would the lessor be violating, I'm curious. Privacy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy
    - pluma 11y ago
      Aw, spoilsport. How is the Valley meant to disrupt markets if they have to respect basic rights like these?
      - vinceguidry 11y ago
        It's not the Valley that has to respect rights, it's landlords.
    - mc32 11y ago
      Can it be claimed information published on the www for everyone to see as "private"? It's like saying my name is private. Moreover, when they do background checks they get private information on me which I would actually have to pay for even when the information is about me. I don't think its as clear cut as you make it out to be.

roel_v 11y ago

? Do you think people who are handing you the keys to at least 100k worth of property, with 2 months rent as a deposit if that, do not want to know who they're renting to?

pluma 11y ago
Because trawling your social media profiles is the only way to find out the relevant bits of information to base such a decision on? I wonder how landlords have dealt with this problem all that time before we had social media. The words "false dichotomy" come to my mind. By your logic landlords are just handing contracts out at random if they can't stalk you online.
- coldpie 11y ago
  You're going too far in the opposite direction. It's simply another datapoint. > I wonder how landlords have dealt with this problem all that time before we had social media. They would ask for your previous landlords, and possibly call them for references. Maybe there was just more damage done back in those days, which is now preventable. I don't think they pay people to stalk social media for fun, there's probably a legitimate business practice behind it. Whether that improvement in their business performance is worth the loss of privacy is an open question and worth debate. > By your logic landlords are just handing contracts out at random if they can't stalk you online. What? They didn't say that. Don't put words into the parent's mouth. Strawmen are really poor argument opponents.
- roel_v 11y ago
  No not the only, but an accessible and easy one. And yes I've turned down prospective renters over what I found out about them online, which I wouldn't have found out 10 years ago.
Retric 11y ago
Insurance... it's a thing.
- roel_v 11y ago

wdewind 11y ago

As someone looking for an apartment in NYC right now, who has lived here for edit: the entire time social media has existed, this has never happened to me or anyone I know. I don't think it's a "thing," as the article implies. Edit: 26 years -> the entire time social media has existed, to please the pedantry.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
>> "who has lived here for 26 years" I don't think that part matters too much considering social media in its current form wasn't really around for most of that time :)
- wil421 11y ago
  What you were never asked for your AOL username when you were trying to rent a house or get a job?

akgerber 11y ago

I don't think the people requesting her information are landlords so much as leaseholders whose home she would be subletting, and they are concerned about subletting to someone who would destroy all of their property. Standard New York landlords who are leasing empty apartments as a business just run a credit check— they'd probably exposing themselves to problems under fair housing laws if they asked for much more.

brixon 11y ago
Agreed, renting an apartment is a business (most of the time), but subletting is a personal transaction. A business cannot discriminate outside of ability to pay the requested cost for the service/product. An individual can discriminate all day long. Where I used to live you were not a business if you had 3 or fewer rentals, but you were a business with 4+ rentals.

qyv 11y ago

Anyone who posts anything online using their real identity or anything associated to their real identity, needs to understand that it is now potentially publicly tied to them indefinitely. Do you think that when you apply for a job your employer doesn't look at your social media? The private sector uses social media data extensively when making judgment calls on individuals, and the scope of this is only getting larger.